B&W King 5x7 tank processing issues - help me solve them!

[mbuonocore]

Marco Buonocore
1: I think the reason for the uneven development of your developing film is that the stirring of the developing liquid was too strong when using B&W KING for development.
Suggestion: In the first minute, stand the developing tank upright and slowly rotate the film shaft to pick up the film by 360 degrees (one circle), (it is recommended not to exceed two circles). After that, stand still for three minutes and slowly rotate one circle; Stand still for three minutes, slowly rotate once (Repeat until the development is complete).
I often exchange usage methods: (1) Stand the developing tank upright and slowly rotate the film shaft to pick up the blade 360 degrees (one turn) (2) Invert the developing tank 360 degrees (quickly, once).
2: This is the film I shot and developed. Used Chinese LUCKY brand 5x7 film, developed by B&W KING.
D-23 developer solution, total time 20 minutes. Rotate twice for the first time (one minute) and remain still for three minutes. Flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes, flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes. (Repeat until the end).
Stop fixing f-5 for 10 minutes. Flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes, flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes. (Repeat until the end).
My previous operation did not result in uneven development during rinsing.
Because each photographer uses different liquid formulas, temperatures, and times. At the same time, many photographers use B&W King, adopting static, rotating (upright), inverted, rolling and other methods, with their own development habits and methods. When encountering problems, there are also various problems that need to be solved, which is also the charm of black and white photography.
Thank you to all the photographers https://www.largeformatphotography.info/ Forum to discuss the usage of B&W KING, thank you to all photographer friends for their support of B&W KING.
I don't know English, this is a computer translation. If there are any errors, I hope you will understand.

Hello Liu Junjie, thank you for joining in the conversation. I will try your agitation method. I won't be using D23, but I'll aim to have development times around 20 minutes. I genuinely don't know how one turn of the shaft will be enough initial agitation. I know this won't translate so well, but I'll eat my shirt if the film is not significantly mottled.

[Alan9940]

Hello Liu Junjie, thank you for joining in the conversation. I will try your agitation method. I won't be using D23, but I'll aim to have development times around 20 minutes. I genuinely don't know how one turn of the shaft will be enough initial agitation. I know this won't translate so well, but I'll eat my shirt if the film is not significantly mottled.

One suggestion I have if you're going to try bw-man's agitation method, is to spin the reel in the direction that allows chemistry to flow into and over the film. Do this make sense? Spin one direction and the chemistry flows across the emulsion; spin the other and the chemistry simply flows across the base side (probably not as helpful to an acceptable development, IMO.)

[mbuonocore]

One suggestion I have if you're going to try bw-man's agitation method, is to spin the reel in the direction that allows chemistry to flow into and over the film. Do this make sense? Spin one direction and the chemistry flows across the emulsion; spin the other and the chemistry simply flows across the base side (probably not as helpful to an acceptable development, IMO.)

Hey Alan - that seems like very good advice. It makes sense!

[MartinP]

I have seen pictures of these Paterson Orbital tanks but never used one. Is there something particular about the pivot underneath?

I mean does it simply rotate, so that the high and low points of the tray vary, while never quite leaving the centre dry and 'up in the air'? If so, a print-tray and a 3D-printed lid might achieve the same results (with some black paint possibly). Having a light-trap in the lid could be done in the design, or by including fixings for a Jobo tank-top in the print.

Edit: I suppose a tank with a lid and locations for the film is actually closely related to the slosher-in-a-tray method, so possibly agitation doesn't have to depend on a magic pivot. I have the insides from a plastic sheet-film tank which I use dip-and-dunk style, in the dark, in four five-liter HD polyethylene catering containers. Way back last century all my lab B+W processing was done by me in cages, manually dip-and-dunking. The only gotcha with sheets was avoiding drips running from the film-clips, and that was easily solved before they went in the dryer.

[Vaughan]

For clarity: are you currently using the B&W King tank with a continuous rotary system?

No. I'm using Jobo 2520 tanks and 2509N reels for 4x5, and Poilot (Chinese exact copies of Jobo) 2550 tanks and Poilot reels for 5x7 and 8x10, and a modified 8x10 reel for whole plate. There are the occasional areas of uneven development but consistency is much, much better.

I agree that the quality of the B&W tanks (and Nikor for that matter) are extremely high; I have come to the conclusion that this style of tank does not scale well to sheet film and that better consistency can be obtained with continuous processing using smaller volumes of chemistry.

An earlier poster mentioned hangers in deep tanks: this is probably the best method for consistency but has the downside of requiring a large amount of space in a fully dark room.

[Alan9940]

An earlier poster mentioned hangers in deep tanks: this is probably the best method for consistency but has the downside of requiring a large amount of space in a fully dark room.

Personally, I never had good luck with tanks & hangers with any developer formula or agitation style I tried. And, I really tried! I would always get some level of surge marks from the developer "squirting" up through the bottom holes. This was a real issue with the clear blue skies we pretty much always have out here in the desert southwest. I mitigated this "sky issue" somewhat by flipping the negative over when loading the hanger, thereby having the sky area in the top half. The best luck I had, overall, was using minimal agitation (every 3 mins) with Pyrocat-HD.

[jnantz]

OP. hope you get it straightened out! its a drag when film doesn't develop the way you want/expect ...

An earlier poster mentioned hangers in deep tanks: this is probably the best method for consistency but has the downside of requiring a large amount of space in a fully dark room.

at least round / cuboid tall fake tupperware food storage containers at dollar tree/dollar general/family dollar/ big lots work great for holding a few gallons of your favorite developer / fixer and can hold a handful of hangers in them without issue .. so one doesn't have to hunt and gather plentiful yet heavy to ship hard rubber tanks ...

Personally, I never had good luck with tanks & hangers with any developer formula or agitation style I tried. And, I really tried! I would always get some level of surge marks from the developer "squirting" up through the bottom holes.

yea there's a way to slowly lower the hangers .. I have a feeling there are some developers that are better suited for deep tank than others or they are used with a different "dilution", I never used pyro or pyrocat, only dk50, sprint film developer, ansco130, and caffenol in the tank, the developer I used was well seasoned, so it's activity is sometimes dulled .. ..

[Michael R]

Personally, I never had good luck with tanks & hangers with any developer formula or agitation style I tried. And, I really tried! I would always get some level of surge marks from the developer "squirting" up through the bottom holes. This was a real issue with the clear blue skies we pretty much always have out here in the desert southwest. I mitigated this "sky issue" somewhat by flipping the negative over when loading the hanger, thereby having the sky area in the top half. The best luck I had, overall, was using minimal agitation (every 3 mins) with Pyrocat-HD.

When I went down the rat hole of sheet film processing methods and uniformity I went as far as making my own hangers (without the holes which were there for gas burst development). Various designs, agitation patterns etc etc. Result: manual dip/dunk was not the worst but not great either. Plain old hand shuffling scored better in my tests.