if you wanna borrow it to try out, you're more than welcome. I keep one at the gallery, and one at home. guess you'll need my roller base well. for multiple sheets the 3006 can't be beat (although tray adherents believe otherwise haha)
if you wanna borrow it to try out, you're more than welcome. I keep one at the gallery, and one at home. guess you'll need my roller base well. for multiple sheets the 3006 can't be beat (although tray adherents believe otherwise haha)
notch codes ? I only use one film...
do you have a 1L steel tank for 35mm/120 spirals? I occasionally do 4 sheets of 5x7/13x18/half-plate in a Kindermann. Inversion agitation only obviously, soft.. Four sheets are hold tight by themselves, no rubber.Originally Posted by mbuonocore
sometime I also was considering, beside the chinese tank you have, a canadian plastic spiral. It uses a middle holder too, and this may have been the cause for same issue you experience:
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...era-s-5x7-reel
the spiral in my former link doesn't use middle rail to hold the sheets and takes 5 sheets. But requires Jobo 2500 tank and so twice the volume in case of inversion.
in your case as I understand amount of sheets processed at a time is what matters. BW King spiral takes 6. Bounet, 20th Century take 4. Jobo Expert Drum takes 6. The Jobo is very expensive, in the 600€ from Fotoimpex who resells from manufacturer:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/j...expert-10.html
Large format is either about money or about tinkering, and tinkering is typically dismissed.
That said I recall threads somewhere about the 5x7 BW King with many satisfied comments.
It's really not that different from using the homemade tanks Steve has you build, except you're not rolling it.
Here's what has worked for me with 4x5 Fomapan 100 and Pyrocat-HD: 6ml part A + 4ml part B + water to bring the total volume to 1,050ml. All solutions at 70F. 5 min water pre-soak, 2 mins initial agitation (inversions), then 6 x 3(20)--tank sits for 6 mins with 20 secs agitation between each cycle. Therefore, total development time would be 20 mins.
I do use homemade tanks, too, for single sheets but found that the agitation cycle needs to be slightly shorter rest time followed by slightly shorter agitation time. I'm guessing that the rigorous agitation (rolling) of the homemade tanks vs the B&W King tank demands a somewhat shorter overall development time.
another alternative, and one I haven't tried, is using the more common Jobo 3010 tank. It's meant for 4x5 film but I checked the fit and 5x7 fits in the chamber. There are two ridges that may or may not affect the backside (I don't believe it will but best to confirm).
Pricing is same as 3006 so no cost savings really. fwiw, the gallery has a 3010 under the processing sink, rarely gets used afaik.
This is a thread on LFPF about this combo.
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...JOBO-3010-drum
notch codes ? I only use one film...
btw, about the Expert drum, the small presentation from the manufacturer shows what it is about.
It is just even (by motorization) rolling agitation of 5 (3006) or 6 (3010) small cylinders that are inside a drum. The processor fills the drum with the liquid, and it's emptied by lifting the tank.
The sophisticated point is temperature control done by water circulation through openings at the bottom, inside the inner chamber of the drum, around each cylinder, with the tempered water in the processor bench.
the water circulation, not easy to reproduce, otherwise one can use tubes of appropriate dimensions, insert then in some drum, hack a light sealed refill/empty top with a cone and the lid of a Kinderman tank. This is one of the many hacks I had in mind, but then 4 sheets of 5x7 inside a 1liter Kindermann tank (the one taking 3x 120 spirals) as pictured earlier works most of the time.
Here an Expert drum implementation with a paper sheet drum:
https://forum.mflenses.com/diy-jobo-...um-t28961.html
if you follow JOBO process in an orthodox way the CPE-3 or CPP-3 is required. Many people just do without the CPP and its water temperature control, but just some roller. But then if no water circulation inside the inner chamber of the drum, no need for the drum itself, and any tinkering like the one there with a print drum would do... :-)
the 4 sheets in the Kindermann are easily temperature controlled .... by immersion in the kitchen sink filled with water, in case developing time is long. Typically I try to keep the temperature in my flat at 19 to 21 Celsius anyway.
---
that said, if others have success with BW King tank and spiral, they you could too. It's about finding old threads somewhere.
Lots of interesting suggestions for alternatives. I've never seen or used a Paterson Orbital, and I very much like landstrykere's hacked together Jobo in the photo above.
The goal still is to find someone using the B&W King tank in a normal manner, and getting decent results. I think the key is in the agitation one uses, and not necessarily that one developer works and another doesn't.
I kind-of gave up on using inversion agitation for sheet film using a Nikor (of Springfield MASS) 4x5 tank, B&W 5x7 tank and Jobo 2550 tank for 8x10. I traced uneven development down to the long pour-in times required to get 1000ml to 3000ml into the tank; during that 20 to 30 seconds the dev dribbles over the film from the top and leaves marks. That it happened with multiple tanks suggested that it's not a problem with the tanks themselves. No, pre-washing did not help. I tried that too. It may have made it worse.
It may be possible to avoid the issue by filling the tank with developer and lowering the reels into the tank, but the tanks need to be filled almost to the top and lowering the reels causes the developer to splash and spill (at least it did when I tried it) and the process needs to be done in a completely dark change tent or room.
In the end I went to continuous rotary development with solution volumes 300m to 750ml maximum, using a funnel to pour directly into the centre column so the tank fills from the bottom up and developer does not dribble over the sheets from the top. Pour time is between 5 and 10 seconds. I'm getting almost perfect results with 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 and saving a lot of money on developer too.
Marco Buonocore
1: I think the reason for the uneven development of your developing film is that the stirring of the developing liquid was too strong when using B&W KING for development.
Suggestion: In the first minute, stand the developing tank upright and slowly rotate the film shaft to pick up the film by 360 degrees (one circle), (it is recommended not to exceed two circles). After that, stand still for three minutes and slowly rotate one circle; Stand still for three minutes, slowly rotate once (Repeat until the development is complete).
I often exchange usage methods: (1) Stand the developing tank upright and slowly rotate the film shaft to pick up the blade 360 degrees (one turn) (2) Invert the developing tank 360 degrees (quickly, once).
2: This is the film I shot and developed. Used Chinese LUCKY brand 5x7 film, developed by B&W KING.
D-23 developer solution, total time 20 minutes. Rotate twice for the first time (one minute) and remain still for three minutes. Flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes, flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes. (Repeat until the end).
Stop fixing f-5 for 10 minutes. Flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes, flip up and down once, stand still for 3 minutes. (Repeat until the end).
My previous operation did not result in uneven development during rinsing.
Because each photographer uses different liquid formulas, temperatures, and times. At the same time, many photographers use B&W King, adopting static, rotating (upright), inverted, rolling and other methods, with their own development habits and methods. When encountering problems, there are also various problems that need to be solved, which is also the charm of black and white photography.
Thank you to all the photographers https://www.largeformatphotography.info/ Forum to discuss the usage of B&W KING, thank you to all photographer friends for their support of B&W KING.
I don't know English, this is a computer translation. If there are any errors, I hope you will understand.
When I was still shooting 13x18cm (=+/- 5"x7") sheet film, I used these famous KODAK hangers in open 'tubs' I had cut out of 5 litre plastic jerrycans (in total darkness).
As I don't shoot this format anymore, I put them away in a box (I have 26 of them), but it worked flawlessly...
You could hang the film, still in the hangers, up to dry, which happend without dry marks nor damage.
Hello Vaughan, believe it or not the B&W King 5x7 tank takes less than 20sec to fill with 1400ml of developer. It has quite a wide mouth. It fills much faster than a similar volume sized reel tank. I'm also using relatively dilute developers, with development times around 22min. Also, the surge marks (which you can see in that first post with photos) coincide with physical parts of the reel - the center ring, and the tight area of the inner spool. I don't think it has to do with pour in times. I can live with a bit of uneven development, but the surge marks that I'm getting are something different.
I agree that lowering the reels into the tank would be frustrating - the machining is quite tight, and the reel *just* fits into the tank. The height of the tank barely exceeds the height of the reel. There's not a lot of room for errors. I've done with with roll film - I have one stainless tank that holds 8 reels of 120, and takes quite a long time to fill. But there's more wiggle room with fit.
For clarity: are you currently using the B&W King tank with a continuous rotary system?
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