Digital back for 4x5"

[johan butenschøn]

Hi!
I'm interested in getting a digital back for my Sinar P. A gazillion megapixels is not important, it's not extreme resolution I'm after. The world of 4x5 is pretty new to me and when it comes to digital backs of this size I'm clueless. I'm not rich, but hopefully there is something out there other than old scanner backs. Some advice is very welcome.

J

[yaya]

Johan, there are a couple of photographic forums with sections that are dedicated to Medium Format Digital backs and equipment, where you can learn and get plenty of advice on choosing a back, a camera and lenses:

getdpi (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)

luminous landscape (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=16.0)

There are lots of people on both forums who use their backs on 5X4 or 6X9 cameras who are happy to share their experience

I'm happy to help with any information about Leaf backs (http://www.leaf-photography.com/), customer references etc. so do feel free to contact me at any time

Yair

Product manager, leaf Imaging Ltd
+44 77 8992 8199 ysh@leaf-photography.com

[streetlevelfoto]

You can get any number of digital medium format backs and adapter plates to them. Drawbacks, aside from price, are higher resolution requirements from your lenses to take advantage of the sensors, and a big crop factor from 4x5 (meaning wide angles are hard to manage without new glass, and bodies capable of ultra close mm focusing (35mm for example, rather than 75 or 90mm for 4x5)

There are scanning backs from betterlight - which are nearly full frame 4x5 - some are even reasonably priced. They are, however, scanning backs - so are not well suited to some types of photography (things that move much, or anything with strobes).

Those are pretty much your options tho. There are no single shot 4x5 backs, at any price that I'm aware of.

Personally - I've been shooting film, and getting drum scans until the situation changes.

[okto]

The cost of a 4x5 inch CCD/CMOS back would probably be on the order of half a million—for the sensor alone. The rejection rate multiplies exponentially with increased sensor surface area. Look at the price increase from APS-C DSLR to FF DSLR to MF digital back.

Now multiply the MF back's price by ten. We're talking Hubble camera. :P

[domaz]

You can get one of those backs (http://cgi.ebay.com/Movable-Pentax-Digital-DSLR-Camera-4x5-45-Adapter-/220589708829?pt=Lens_Accessories&hash=item335c2bd61d) that allows you to mount a DSLR on the camera back. That's probably the cheapest digital option, but it makes it hard to use wide angle lens, from what I hear, since you have to compress the bellows even more to compensate for the DSLR's reduced focus plan distance.

[streetlevelfoto]

You can get one of those backs (http://cgi.ebay.com/Movable-Pentax-Digital-DSLR-Camera-4x5-45-Adapter-/220589708829?pt=Lens_Accessories&hash=item335c2bd61d) that allows you to mount a DSLR on the camera back. That's probably the cheapest digital option, but it makes it hard to use wide angle lens, from what I hear, since you have to compress the bellows even more to compensate for the DSLR's reduced focus plan distance.

Plus the massive crop factor. I cannot imagine being able to focus a 24mm lens with a 4x5 camera in order to get a wide angle with a dSLR.

However, for macro and longer lenses, it's a useful tool to have, if your LF lenses are high enough resolution...

[Frank Petronio]

Better Light made the last of the scanning backs that are compatible with modern hardware. I'd start there.

[domaz]

Plus the massive crop factor. I cannot imagine being able to focus a 24mm lens with a 4x5 camera in order to get a wide angle with a dSLR.

However, for macro and longer lenses, it's a useful tool to have, if your LF lenses are high enough resolution...

The DSLR back I linked to is movable so you could use it for making stitched panoramas. That would make the crop factor issue kind of moot. You are stuck with panoramic aspect ratios though.

[Frank Petronio]

Other than a scanning back, trying to use a digital solution with a Sinar P is ridiculous. It's not the right camera for the job, as the medium format backs are so small that your lenses become too short to use with any movements and the geared movements of the P are too coarse for such a small imaging area anyway.

I know you can get the old Kodak medium format backs for $1500 or so, but again, even the sliding adapter for the Sinar costs almost that much. As for using a 35mm-sized DSLR on the back of the Sinar... well it just makes the issues worse.

Buy film or a scanning back or an appropriate camera for the digital back.

[Thom Bennett]

"It's not the right camera for the job, as the medium format backs are so small that your lenses become too short to use with any movements and the geared movements of the P are too coarse for such a small imaging area anyway."

Actually, We use LEAF MFDB's on our two Sinar P2's and we use all the available movements on the camera. By utilizing the Live View function we compose, focus, swing, tilt, etc. on the computer monitor. Granted, this is all studio stuff; no field use. We've got an appropriate selection of lenses (45, 80, 105, 135, 150) and photograph everything from jewelry to furniture. There was an article I wrote about this in the May/June 2010 issue of View Camera Magazine. Here's our website: http://www.rauantiques.com/

Also, this is not my personal equipment; I'm a staff photog. For my own work I still shoot film.

[papah]

I use the CameraFusion sliding back on my 4x5's often, with my Nikons.
http://www.camerafusion.com/

Here is a sample image from my Velostigmat 12" lens on a Cambo:
http://hemingway.cs.washington.edu/portfolio/pano/velo.html

I use my D5000 and my D3 for imagers. Works well for my purposes....

I just got a quote on a 60mm sq. CCD sensor for a research project: $24000 each in small quantities. 15 micron pixels, monochrome. The vendor has one that is 80mm square; they wouldn't even quote a price!

[streetlevelfoto]

The DSLR back I linked to is movable so you could use it for making stitched panoramas. That would make the crop factor issue kind of moot. You are stuck with panoramic aspect ratios though.

I should have clarified. Single shot solutions are limited. There are stitching solutions for both dslrs and MFDBs, but if I'm going to bother with that, I might as well use a scanning back (with the caveat that at least I could stitch and still use strobes, as opposed to scanning backs).

[yaya]

Not exactly a 4x5" camera but perhaps even better...

From a recent trip to San Miguel de Allende, Mexico.
Arca-Swiss Rm2D with Schneider 43mm/5.6 XL

Leaf Aptus-II 10R:

http://i53.tinypic.com/dpheth.jpg

Leaf Aptus-II 12:

http://i55.tinypic.com/1251ikg.jpg

[aluncrockford]

I have been using a sliding back with a P45 for years and it works well you just need some wider lenses. the chip means you will need a decent magnifier and a bag belllows then off you go

[alexanderfedin]

Faster and cheaper scan back for large format (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?104803-Faster-and-cheaper-scan-back-for-large-format)

[Leonard Evens]

When I asked a similar question, I found that getting a 4 x 5 digital back for my view camera was impractical. The only such thing available is a scanning back, which involves relatively long exposure times. If you want to do view camera photography with a digital back, it makes much more sense toget a 6 x 9 view camera and a medium format digital back. Even so, that will be very expensive.

Some people suggested getting instead a full frame 35 mm DSLR. I got a Nikon D800, which I am happy with. It is a good choice because the smaller format yields much larger depth of field, so I don't really need tilts and swings. The one things I miss the most is rise/fall and shifts, and a tilt shift lens allows me to do that.

[Nathan Potter]

As I have mentioned previously there are CMOS based Xray panels available for large format (B&W only of course) that will likely work in the visible light range. These are used in hospitals for various Xray applications. The smallest pixel pitch I've seen is about 50 µm. Most are in the 100 to 200 µm pitch range but have sizes from about 5X7 to 16X20. I don't know about pixel sensitivity or spectral sensitivity but probably worth investigating. I believe all require a readout device plus the appropriate software. Price of the plates alone is in the $1000 to $2000 range. Adaptation to a view camera seems possible. Fuji and others are into making these.

As Leonard mentioned above the 36 MP D800 really gets you a very high quality color image but if that is insufficient then an auto panning setup can be used to increase the MP size by factors of 2 to 8 using stitching software. Panos of course are equivalent to a scanning back where little of no subject motion can be tolerated.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.