Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

[j.e.simmons]

I have the Kodak GBX-2 filter which is advertised for use with X-ray film.

[Tin Can]

THE problem is the new improved 2 Watt red LED

When we first bought them they were 1 watt

Nothing written in the box or LED

I just found a NIB 1 Watt as I bought the originals by the box

double trouble

[Daniel Unkefer]

I have the Kodak GBX-2 filter which is advertised for use with X-ray film.

Jason told me either 1A or XRAY filter with RED LED No probs at all. Put it together and test it!

Without the red Kodak filter the LED was fogging his EI 25 Dry Plates during coating.

He sent me speed plates, then told me to throw them in the trash. He replaced them with plates coated with double safe safelight

[Tin Can]

What type and wattage are you using with the Kodak filter?

At what distance, is it bounced or direct?

It is good the filter is still sold, I had a handful of damaged old ones, pinholes and worse

Kodak GBX-2 Dark Red Safelight Filter 5.5" for Blue-Sensitive X-ray Film & Green-Sensitive Medical X-ray Film (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27663-REG/Kodak_1416627_GBX_2_Dark_Red_Safelight.html/accessories)

I just ordered one, I have several KODAK Bullet fixtures with 1 Watt Red LED, bounced off ceiling

I think an incandescent white 15 watt bulb was specified

Oven Bulbs!

[Daniel Unkefer]

I measured the direct light distance to make sure it was not under six feet. About 7 feet or so direct.

I suspect strongly I was told to get; what Jason linked me at the time was the older one watt variety.

The light is bright enough over the dev tray to lift the film up and clearly examine the shadows; straight replenished Microdol-X about 18 minutes typical

Low and Slow dev



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50348848932_1424fbb535_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh)Kodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Daniel Unkefer]

Randy,

Here I what I using, no fog even at 25 minutes

YGA03A44-3W Red-1
120V 55ma 3W E26

I bought used 1A's and bullets on Ebay Maybe $40 each

[j.e.simmons]

I have the 15-watt bulb that came with the kodak fixture. It’s still good. Kodak says a 25-watt bulb can be used indirectly.

My tests this morning were with the leds bounced off the ceiling.

[Tin Can]

2013 Darkroom, sold the space and reduced DR size in new location

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626393593_fcd0d924f3_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/26WLbR)DSCN3573 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/26WLbR) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626823269_c8569fd79f_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/9P7071)
DSCN3570 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/9P7071) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Bob Wagner]

Found this, noticed a recommendation for 2.5 minute exposure limit at 4' 15 watt bulb

KODAK Safelight Filter #GBX-2, 5 1/2' Round Size, for Blue Sensitive X-Ray Films & Green Sensitive Medical X-Ray Films.
Universal safelighting for both intraoral and extraoral dental filmsThe GBX-2 (ruby red) safelight filter is a universal safelight filter that can be used in dental darkrooms where both intraoral and extraoral films are processed. A frosted bulb of 15 watts or less should be used in the safelight, which should be at least 4 feet (1.2 m) from the film.The GBX-2 safelight filter may be used in darkrooms where manual processing is performed, provided that film handling under safelight conditions is limited to approximately 2 1/2 minutes.

[Tin Can]

Found this, noticed a recommendation for 2.5 minute exposure limit at 4' 15 watt bulb

KODAK Safelight Filter #GBX-2, 5 1/2' Round Size, for Blue Sensitive X-Ray Films & Green Sensitive Medical X-Ray Films.
Universal safelighting for both intraoral and extraoral dental filmsThe GBX-2 (ruby red) safelight filter is a universal safelight filter that can be used in dental darkrooms where both intraoral and extraoral films are processed. A frosted bulb of 15 watts or less should be used in the safelight, which should be at least 4 feet (1.2 m) from the film.The GBX-2 safelight filter may be used in darkrooms where manual processing is performed, provided that film handling under safelight conditions is limited to approximately 2 1/2 minutes.

Excellent Bob!

Thank you

Overnight I found and bought 3 more VGC KODAK Bullet lamp fixtures

I will wait and see what filter they have

[jmdavis]

I'm still using the 7w incandescent red bulbs. Though my body is between the bulb and the film, I'm also fighting light leaks in my community darkroom. So, I generally use the SP10 covered for the first 3-4 minutes of development of single sided mammo film. I should try using it as a tray only and check for issues.

[Fr. Mark]

I find myself wondering if Infra Red lights and night vision goggles might not be the way to go for making film and developing.

[j.e.simmons]

About the time this thread started, I used X-ray film with an old red safelight bulb that came in one of those boxes of photo stuff we accumulate. No idea what it was or where it came from. It never fogged anything. It no longer works, thus my search for a new bulb. I tried one of those Viper night vision monoculars that were the rage on APUG. It fogged panchromatic film. I don’t remember the wavelengths involved, but the wavelength that doesn’t fog is invisible to the Viper. I suppose I’ll get it out and at least test for fog with X-ray film.

[Tin Can]

I bought today a Dental Safelight with KODAK GBX-2 filter made for Blue or Green sensitive X Ray film

Last decade we didn't know which KODAK filter was correct now eBay is dumping

[T.Chabry]

This is the safelight I am using and I don't have any fogging issue but I keep the light at about 2 feet away from the film.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=model+57+safelight

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51529387706_a5287c1a4a_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mvtzH5)8x10 large format (https://flic.kr/p/2mvtzH5)

Location : Silver Falls, Saint John, NB, Canada.

Camera: 8x10 Kodak Rochester Empire State made around 1920

Film: Agfa X-Ray exposed at ISO 100

Development: 6 mn in Caffenol C-H @ 20°C

[Tin Can]

I found KODAK GBX-2 / GBX2 (NEW IN BOX)

eBay

It sure looks like even dentists are dumping x-Ray

I never tried that safelight filter as I never heard of it until very recently

I will add several to my DR

[Tin Can]

Well those tricky eBayers

They had 2 FS one used one new, the used was 1/2 price

4 Days to here, Dentist wall mount, made for X-Ray

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51636607630_9755c46b4b_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/uUhr73)Dentist Safe Lamp (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/uUhr73) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[abruzzi]

I have the SuperBrightLED bulbs, purchased about 3 years ago (I’ll look to see the wattage when I get a chance.). I was having fogging issues with Fuji HRU, so I tested. The lamp was about 6 ft from the film, pointed towards the ceiling, with a reflector dish around the bulb, so here should have been no direct light, only reflected. This was about 2 minutes exposure with a lens cap on the film:

220767

I bought some rubylith gel, but I haven’t had a chance to attach and test it.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50348848932_1424fbb535_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh)Kodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Just to recap this setup does not fog Fuji HRU even after 25 minutes of exposure. Kodak 1A in bullet, Lowes 1W LED (I think)
No fog with Ilford Commercial Ortho, either

Filter is seven feet from developer tray

[Tin Can]

Superbright have no markings, on both the old 1 watt and new 2 watt

They look identical, but one is way more powerful

Also the usual reflectors have heat holes near the base, which leak bright light

I cover those with gaff tape

[j.e.simmons]

I rewired my old Kodak bullet safelight, put the Lowe’s bulb in it, and covered with the CBX-2 filter. Bounced the light off the ceiling so nothing direct. No fogging.

[abruzzi]

Superbright have no markings, on both the old 1 watt and new 2 watt

They look identical, but one is way more powerful



I love how visible there are compared to my incandescent safe light which takes me 2-4 minutes before I can see anything in the room. I’m hoping the rubylith will make the light safe without reducing the ambient light too much.

[j.e.simmons]

I used Carestream X-ray film for several years. I’m now testing Fuji and ran into something strange. I use BTSD methods and ran the tests with a step wedge and Plotter software. While most folks seem to shoot this film at ISO 80-100, my tests show EFS of 6-14. The tests show development times for Pyrocat that include SBR 7 (N) time of 7:15 which seems in line with what others have reported. I went out and shot a full range scene that was SBR 7. The program gave me an exposure time of 3-minutes and a development time of five minutes 30-seconds. This just didn’t seem right to my eye and experience. I made a second exposure by my incident meter at ISO 100 - 1/30 second and developed for the 7:15 time.

The long exposure came out far overexposed. The short exposure had a little less shadow detail than I like, so in the future I’ll try it at 80.

Any idea why the Plotter software gives such low EFS and resulting long exposure times, while at the same time giving what seems to be correct development times?

[Tin Can]

I don't think Fuji or Kodak would make wildly diff Medical X-Ray film

I have some industrial X-Ray coming, that MAY be different

It's 5X7, which I never saw in Medical

[abruzzi]

The long exposure came out far overexposed. The short exposure had a little less shadow detail than I like, so in the future I’ll try it at 80.


I don't have the tools or skill to do what you did, but with a little experimentation, I shoot HR-U at EI80 and developed in Rodinal 1:100. I haven't tried in Pyrocat yet, since I'm only just starting experimenting with Pyrocat in other contexts. Once I'm more familiar with it, I may try HR-U in it.

[j.e.simmons]

Sandy King wrote in some thread years ago that Effective Film Speed and ISO are not the same but should be close.

[Philippe Grunchec]

BTW, where do you buy your 8x10" Mammo films in the US? This size is not available in Europe, I have to buy 18x24cm and the ration is not exactly the same.
Thx in advance.

[Tin Can]

I think new 8x10 mammo is extinct

Maybe expired available on eBay USA

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

I used them for almost a decade, very reliable source

I don't think I will ever run out of my pile


BTW, where do you buy your 8x10" Mammo films in the US? This size is not available in Europe, I have to buy 18x24cm and the ration is not exactly the same.
Thx in advance.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50353034587_fd5b4f05b0_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHwsUK)Kodak Min-R Single Sided Mammography 18x24cm (https://flic.kr/p/2jHwsUK) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here is my stash of 18x24 single sided.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50928933843_7dcf553d6b_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg)Sinar Norma 18x24 Lisco Holders XRAY (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

An 18x24cm contact printed on the larger 8x10 paper allows a nice black border IMO

[HT Finley]

So here I am 604 web pages and post count so high I dare not even think in those terms, lest I fear an explosion of the brain. How do i sort through all that to find a few answers and testimonials of Fuji HR or HRT Green and Rodinal combination? It seems to be the favorite combo to achieve convenience, yet true continuous tone in 8x10 tray use. Thank you.

[Corran]

Just start with 1:100 for 6 minutes, EI 80, 70 degrees and go from there.

[maltfalc]

So here I am 604 web pages and post count so high I dare not even think in those terms, lest I fear an explosion of the brain. How do i sort through all that to find a few answers and testimonials of Fuji HR or HRT Green and Rodinal combination? It seems to be the favorite combo to achieve convenience, yet true continuous tone in 8x10 tray use. Thank you.

click on "search thread" and search for fuji hr-t rodinol (or hr-u).

[Philippe Grunchec]

I think new 8x10 mammo is extinct

Maybe expired available on eBay USA

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

I used them for almost a decade, very reliable source

I don't think I will ever run out of my pile

I have already been in contact with ZZmedical, but they don't ship to Europe!...

[Tin Can]

eBay

as I wrote it is nearly extinct

but still cheap, the more out of date it gets




I have already been in contact with ZZmedical, but they don't ship to Europe!...

[kanishka]

Fuji um-MA mammography
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51532911275_8702cec49d.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mvMD9g)014 (https://flic.kr/p/2mvMD9g) by Matías Farber (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189954969@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51531987026_341c6c8336.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mvGUoW)015 (https://flic.kr/p/2mvGUoW) by Matías Farber (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189954969@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51532235658_f1fd75914c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mvJbiG)016 (https://flic.kr/p/2mvJbiG) by Matías Farber (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189954969@N02/), on Flickr

[Randy]

kanishka, those are wonderful ^

[Marikapi]

Really beautiful


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

[Tin Can]

Agree very nice

Those could also be posted in LF Portraits as X-Ray IS REAL FILM

[stiganas]

I want to build a stash of xray film before it goes extinct. Is easy to buy film locally; Carestream, I already bought the regular, cheap, MXG film and I want to buy more but I prefer, of course, a sigle sided film.

All mamo film available, Carestream Min-R S, Carestream Min-R 2000, Carestream Min-R EV are double sided according to the datasheets:

- MIN-R 2000 Plus Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R S Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R EV Film is a medium speed, dual coated

and yet I read on this topic that Min-R film is single coated. It is a different film ?

I don't know yet if the Fuji UM-MA is available locally but intend to find out.

[Kiwi7475]

I want to build a stash of xray film before it goes extinct. Is easy to buy film locally; Carestream, I already bought the regular, cheap, MXG film and I want to buy more but I prefer, of course, a sigle sided film.

All mamo film available, Carestream Min-R S, Carestream Min-R 2000, Carestream Min-R EV are double sided according to the datasheets:

- MIN-R 2000 Plus Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R S Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R EV Film is a medium speed, dual coated

and yet I read on this topic that Min-R film is single coated. It is a different film ?

I don't know yet if the Fuji UM-MA is available locally but intend to find out.

I am also interested in knowing if there’s other single sided x-ray film still available — I don’t know the answer to your question, but I do know that UM-MA comes in 18x24 cm (and 24x30) which based on what I researched, will not fit an 8x10 holder, it will fall out. You would need a 18x24cm (7x9”) holder and a back that supports it. For these reasons I stopped considering UM-MA.

The only single sided X-ray film I’m aware of right now is (and it even has antihalation) is Agfa’s Radiomat Duplicating X-ray such as the one found here:

https://www.graylinemedical.com/products/agfa-radiomat-x-ray-film-duplicating-11-x-14-100-per-box-pcd1114

But its price competes with non X-ray film, so why bother.

(Care stream also has a comparable duplicating film:
https://www.carestream.cn/de/de/-/media/publicsite/resources/radiography-and-health-it/technical-information-sheets/image-capture/film-systems/pdf/8606-ra-duplicating-film-tds.pdf)

It’d be nice to hear if others are aware of other single sided options still available.

[maltfalc]

I want to build a stash of xray film before it goes extinct. Is easy to buy film locally; Carestream, I already bought the regular, cheap, MXG film and I want to buy more but I prefer, of course, a sigle sided film.

All mamo film available, Carestream Min-R S, Carestream Min-R 2000, Carestream Min-R EV are double sided according to the datasheets:

- MIN-R 2000 Plus Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R S Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R EV Film is a medium speed, dual coated

and yet I read on this topic that Min-R film is single coated. It is a different film ?

I don't know yet if the Fuji UM-MA is available locally but intend to find out.


I am also interested in knowing if there’s other single sided x-ray film still available — I don’t know the answer to your question, but I do know that UM-MA comes in 18x24 cm (and 24x30) which based on what I researched, will not fit an 8x10 holder, it will fall out. You would need a 18x24cm (7x9”) holder and a back that supports it. For these reasons I stopped considering UM-MA.

The only single sided X-ray film I’m aware of right now is (and it even has antihalation) is Agfa’s Radiomat Duplicating X-ray such as the one found here:

https://www.graylinemedical.com/products/agfa-radiomat-x-ray-film-duplicating-11-x-14-100-per-box-pcd1114

But its price competes with non X-ray film, so why bother.

(Care stream also has a comparable duplicating film:
https://www.carestream.cn/de/de/-/media/publicsite/resources/radiography-and-health-it/technical-information-sheets/image-capture/film-systems/pdf/8606-ra-duplicating-film-tds.pdf)

It’d be nice to hear if others are aware of other single sided options still available.

there's at least three or four brands of 5x12 dental duplicating film available on ebay.

[Kiwi7475]

there's at least three or four brands of 5x12 dental duplicating film available on ebay.

Right— thank you!
However for my part I’m looking for options compatible with 8x10 and 11x14 (even if trimming is required).

[Eugen Mezei]

All mamo film available, Carestream Min-R S, Carestream Min-R 2000, Carestream Min-R EV are double sided according to the datasheets:

- MIN-R 2000 Plus Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R S Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
- MIN-R EV Film is a medium speed, dual coated

and yet I read on this topic that Min-R film is single coated. It is a different film ?


I read a flyer (don't remember if it was from Carestream or Kodak) about these films and they explain that dual coated mean a fine coating and a coarse coating. It was not clear if the two coatings are on the same side or on different sides of the support. But they explained which coating has to be oriented to the light. (As I remember it was the fine one.)
I also contacted Carestream, asking to clarify if these films are coated with two layers both on the same side of the support or each on a different side of it. They did not answer. Maybe somebody else will try to contact them?

On the other hand, the technical data sheet says:

"Processing MIN-R 2000 Plus
Film (Emulsion up versus down)
As with all current Carestream mammography films, we recommend processing MIN-R2000 Plus Film primary emulsion side down in the MIN-R, 270 RA, 3000 RA and M35 series processors as well as in other manufacturers’ shallow tank processors.
Processing non-uniformity, characterized by uneven optical densities on radiographs may occur due to the accumulation of processing by-products adjacent to the film emulsion inside the developer rack.
Processing the film primary emulsion side down allows the developer solution to reach the primary emulsion more efficiently, reducing the occurrence of non-uniform development."

Also read page 13 (page 15 of the PDF) in this very detailed brochure: http://www.medimat.hu/data/2013/0913/204/minR_userGuide_M3-103.pdf

[stiganas]

Interesting, I dug through Kodak technical pdf and found this::

Processing the film primary
emulsion side down allows the
developer solution to reach the
primary emulsion more efficiently,
reducing the occurrence of nonuniform
development.

So it looks like two different layers on the two sides.


I read a flyer (don't remember if it was from Carestream or Kodak) about these films and they explain that dual coated mean a fine coating and a coarse coating. It was not clear if the two coatings are on the same side or on different sides of the support. But they explained which coating has to be oriented to the light. (As I remember it was the fine one.)
I also contacted Carestream, asking to clarify if these films are coated with two layers both on the same side of the support or each on a different side of it. They did not answer. Maybe somebody else will try to contact them?

[Kiwi7475]

Interesting… so is this film notched? Is the other layer an antihalation only? (That’s probably wishful thinking but I’m not sure why they’d want to coat two different emulsions on each side….)

[maltfalc]

Interesting… so is this film notched? Is the other layer an antihalation only? (That’s probably wishful thinking but I’m not sure why they’d want to coat two different emulsions on each side….)the front emulsion is right up against the intensifying screen, so it uses a finer, higher resolution emulsion. the light that makes it through the front emulsion and base to the rear emulsion has lost some fine detail, so the rear emulsion can use a coarser, higher sensitivity emulsion.

[Kiwi7475]

the front emulsion is right up against the intensifying screen, so it uses a finer, higher resolution emulsion. the light that makes it through the front emulsion and base to the rear emulsion has lost some fine detail, so the rear emulsion can use a coarser, higher sensitivity emulsion.

Thanks! I appreciate the explanation.

I think this means however that if using that film we are 1) still susceptible to scratches on both sides 2) sacrificing resolution in contact printing due to the second emulsion separated by the film thickness (maybe now even worse if the other emulsion is coarser, compared to identical coatings on both sides?) and 3) still without antihilation; so maybe these represent no real advantage to the other options such as Fuji HRU, etc….

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50371891118_9c12373511_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKc7im)MINR XRay Test 1 210mm Componon F22 Two Pops C171 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKc7im) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

18x24cm Kodak MIN-R Mammography film cut into 4x5s. Sinar Norma Broncolor C171 with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. Two strobe pops with Sinar Norma Shutter, multiple pops are no problem. Schneider chrome Componon lens at F22. Lisco Regal 4x5 film holder. Legacy Mic-X film dev 8 mins at 68F Aristo 8x10 #2 RC print Multigrade dev

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50928933843_429bb6948f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg)Sinar Norma 18x24 Lisco Holders XRAY (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50353034587_bded0d99f0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHwsUK)Kodak Min-R Single Sided Mammography 18x24cm (https://flic.kr/p/2jHwsUK) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[maltfalc]

Thanks! I appreciate the explanation.

I think this means however that if using that film we are 1) still susceptible to scratches on both sides 2) sacrificing resolution in contact printing due to the second emulsion separated by the film thickness (maybe now even worse if the other emulsion is coarser, compared to identical coatings on both sides?) and 3) still without antihilation; so maybe these represent no real advantage to the other options such as Fuji HRU, etc….
the rear emulsion is likely there to boost density or dynamic range and the front emulsion should capture plenty of fine detail and may transfer it well in contact prints. it wouldn't be optimized for one sided illumination if they weren't trying to maximize fine details. it does seem to have an antihalation layer over the rear emulsion. but who knows.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes, the two emulsion do indeed boost dmax, but I think the main reason is that it doubles the amount of silver halide, which increases the film speed. It is best to develop this type of xray film in flat-bottomed trays, using very gentle agitation. I never get any scratches this way (including 14x17). As far as contact printing goes, you cannot see any difference in resolution, unless you do a side by side comparison with a single-sided film print, and even then, it is subtle.

[Kiwi7475]

Thanks! Very intriguing. I’d try it out but unfortunately Min-r is only available in 18x24 and 24x30 cm … which don’t get along with standard 8x10 and 11x14 holders…

[stiganas]

Yes indeed, is inch vs. metric but the holders are identical outside. I have 4x5 and 9x12; 5x7 and 13x18; 8x10 and 18x24. 18x24 holder was not easy to find, now there are some on ebay.de with a very high price. In Europe the xray film is only metric in all sizes, I have 13x18 and 18x24 Kodak MXG, still very cheap and available (10 EUR 13x18 and 19 EUR 18x24 + VAT) but I have the feeling that it will not last long and go extinct.

So I want to buy a box (5x100), keep it in the freezer, and forget about it. But if I spend all this money and space in the freezer I prefer to buy the better one, the sigle sided mamo. I have a box of Ektascan BR/A and now regret I didn't bought more because is gone. I don't buy real film, too expensive, for "real" film I prefer Instax.


I am also interested in knowing if there’s other single sided x-ray film still available — I don’t know the answer to your question, but I do know that UM-MA comes in 18x24 cm (and 24x30) which based on what I researched, will not fit an 8x10 holder, it will fall out. You would need a 18x24cm (7x9”) holder and a back that supports it. For these reasons I stopped considering UM-MA.

The only single sided X-ray film I’m aware of right now is (and it even has antihalation) is Agfa’s Radiomat Duplicating X-ray such as the one found here:

https://www.graylinemedical.com/products/agfa-radiomat-x-ray-film-duplicating-11-x-14-100-per-box-pcd1114

But its price competes with non X-ray film, so why bother.

(Care stream also has a comparable duplicating film:
https://www.carestream.cn/de/de/-/media/publicsite/resources/radiography-and-health-it/technical-information-sheets/image-capture/film-systems/pdf/8606-ra-duplicating-film-tds.pdf)

It’d be nice to hear if others are aware of other single sided options still available.

[stiganas]

I got word from the Fuji distributor, the film is still available, at least one more batch will arrive next month at the price of 50 USD +VAT/box with a minimum order of 5 boxes (a case). So, I'll buy a case and that's it (and some regular MXG 13x18)

[Andrew O'Neill]

Single-sided is more convenient, as far as methods of development go, but I prefer the look of the double-sided green by a long shot. It responds great to yellow and green filters.

[Eugen Mezei]

Yes indeed, is inch vs. metric but the holders are identical outside.


What holders do you use? The ones we normally use in LF cameras or the ones used in radiography to put under/near the pacient?




Kodak MXG, still very cheap and available (10 EUR 13x18 and 19 EUR 18x24 + VAT)


Where can you get it at this price? Is there a distributor where I could order?



So I want to buy a box (5x100), keep it in the freezer, and forget about it. But if I spend all this money and space in the freezer I prefer to buy the better one, the sigle sided mamo. I have a box of Ektascan BR/A and now regret I didn't bought more because is gone.

I would buy 500.
I have some T-Mat GR/A, but not tried until now. Curious what it can do. It is a dental film.

L.E.: Care esti, mai? :) Acuma vad ca esti din RO. Ma bucur.

[stiganas]

Normal LF holders work fine. I tested 18x24 and 13x18 xray film that fit the holders without any cutting.

The distributor for Carestream is http://www.infomed-srl.ro/ and for Fuji is https://www.phm.ro/, i don't know if they ship outside Romania and if they sell only B2B


What holders do you use? The ones we normally use in LF cameras or the ones used in radiography to put under/near the pacient?
Where can you get it at this price? Is there a distributor where I could order?
I would buy 500.
I have some T-Mat GR/A, but not tried until now. Curious what it can do. It is a dental film.

L.E.: Care esti, mai? :) Acuma vad ca esti din RO. Ma bucur.

Da, sunt din RO, Bucuresti :)

[Tin Can]

Industrial X-Ray IS different

Just wasted a sheet, as I always do when testing

Well packaged, one white film per sealed pack. Thin lead lined paper, both sides, tear it open. The lead paper dents easily

I bet it is clear, but won't know until I process a sheet

99 sheets to go!

Film is 5X7 Plate size, which means it is exactly 5X7 and drops into a plate holder, but not a 5X7 Film holder

Shiny white one side, dull white the other, round corners, no notch

[Tin Can]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51899028132_de0b24bd95.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/L0e589)50-5X7 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/L0e589) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51900077853_86e8e6485d.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/x4U7db)Exposed undeveloped (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/x4U7db) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51900077798_0b559382c2.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Dd6s6E)Packet (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Dd6s6E) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Eugen Mezei]

Film is 5X7 Plate size, which means it is exactly 5X7 and drops into a plate holder, but not a 5X7 Film holder


What about a 13x18 cm film holder?

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50928933843_429bb6948f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg)Sinar Norma 18x24 Lisco Holders XRAY (https://flic.kr/p/2kAq6Gg) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I bought a bunch of 9x12, 13x18, and 18x24 Norma Holders in Europe mainly Germany Yes they were 'spensive but worth it IMO. 18x24cm Kodak Mammo film I have 400+ sheets so good for a while.

The 18x24 all came from France I have a couple of emulsion numbers. I've heard it stores very well and I may well freeze all but a box of each.

Recently I placed a big order with PhotoImpex in Germany and they are pleasant and cool to deal with. Bought five different flavours of 13x18. They had everything but Delta 100 in stock.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been using xray films now since 2008. I took some double-sided green along with me on a shoot a couple weeks ago, and made a video of it. I compare side by side shots with 8x10 panchromatic film, HP5 (my main LF film).


https://youtu.be/3VwiVKDoE68

[Eugen Mezei]

I compare side by side shots with 8x10 panchromatic film, HP5 (my main LF film).


https://youtu.be/3VwiVKDoE68

Interesting video, from which I got some good ideas.

I would like somebody would make a video about removing one of the coatings of Röntgenfilm. Heard it can be done, but never seen how to do the trick of removing without leaving scratches behind.

[Philippe Grunchec]

Can you tell us which x-ray film you used? Fuji, Kodak, or...
Thx in advance!

[Tin Can]

Interesting video, from which I got some good ideas.

I would like somebody would make a video about removing one of the coatings of Röntgenfilm. Heard it can be done, but never seen how to do the trick of removing without leaving scratches behind.

A nastily sloppy job with bleach

I will never do it

waste of time

[Andrew O'Neill]

Interesting video, from which I got some good ideas.

I would like somebody would make a video about removing one of the coatings of Röntgenfilm. Heard it can be done, but never seen how to do the trick of removing without leaving scratches behind.


Glad it helped you... I have stripped the emulsion and believe me, it's not worth it. You literally cut the films density range in half...which is no good for me as I need negatives with extended DR for alt printing, such as carbon transfer. There is a video showing the process if you want to try it... Just be very careful you don't get any of the bleach on the good side!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9WuGkhdjDQ

[Andrew O'Neill]

Can you tell us which x-ray film you used? Fuji, Kodak, or...
Thx in advance!

Hi Philippe, sorry for late reply... I'm not sure who the actual manufacturer was. I bought it from CXSOnline. They had their own label on it which read, "Distributed by CXSOnline". Probably Kodak. It's no longer available but they do sell Agfa Ortho Green, which is orthochromatic and would have similar if not same response with the stuff I use. I'm not sure if it's single or double-sided, though. You could send them an email. If it's single-sided, I'd snap some up. Much sharper than double-sided, and more development options available (tray, rotary, etc).

[Kiwi7475]

Hi Philippe, sorry for late reply... I'm not sure who the actual manufacturer was. I bought it from CXSOnline. They had their own label on it which read, "Distributed by CXSOnline". Probably Kodak. It's no longer available but they do sell Agfa Ortho Green, which is orthochromatic and would have similar if not same response with the stuff I use. I'm not sure if it's single or double-sided, though. You could send them an email. If it's single-sided, I'd snap some up. Much sharper than double-sided, and more development options available (tray, rotary, etc).

If we are talking about Agfa G Plus (Green Sensitive Orthochromatic) it is definitely double sided.

[Rick A]

A nastily sloppy job with bleach

I will never do it

waste of time

My chemist daughter informs me this releases toxic fumes, I don't do it.

[koraks]

My chemist daughter informs me this releases toxic fumes, I don't do it.

Not any more than cleaning the toilet does.
But a Andrew remarked, it's really not worth it to begin with.

[Andrew O'Neill]

...and besides, stripping the film destroys its character.

@kiwi7475, that's good to know about the Agfa film. Thanks!

[Tin Can]

Exactly!

and just try it

all 2X X-Ray anywhere is very similar as it was made for Doctors


...and besides, stripping the film destroys its character.

@kiwi7475, that's good to know about the Agfa film. Thanks!

[Rubud]

Now that life has somewhat returned to normal here I'll be able to go out for some test shoots. Before that I thought it best to dummy develop a sheet each of what I have to determine fog levels. Thankful I did since it looks as if the Cronex has gone to Kronos.

225769

[Tin Can]

Perhaps you cannot find NOS?

NA still has in date X-Ray

Is your film for digital or analog?

Analog works



Now that life has somewhat returned to normal here I'll be able to go out for some test shoots. Before that I thought it best to dummy develop a sheet each of what I have to determine fog levels. Thankful I did since it looks as if the Cronex has gone to Kronos.

225769

[Rubud]

With apologies, I'm not sure what NOS is. The film however is analogue (along with my intended use). I haven't done any field test as yet but I'm thinking the Curix could be shot around EI 25 as a starter and see how I go about scanning/printing through the fog. The Cronex I'll fix out and use for some alternative process.

Is NA a company in Australia as I'd love to get my hands on fresh stock? I've found it hard to find a supplier here and what I have found will only supply the medical profession.


Perhaps you cannot find NOS?

NA still has in date X-Ray

Is your film for digital or analog?

Analog works

[Tin Can]

NA = North America

NOS = New Old Stock

Australia is way out of my league, shipping is beyond too high

Most of the world is eliminating analog X-Ray asap, but maybe still in demand for veterinarians in the outback

I expect fresh will be gone soon in USA


With apologies, I'm not sure what NOS is. The film however is analogue (along with my intended use). I haven't done any field test as yet but I'm thinking the Curix could be shot around EI 25 as a starter and see how I go about scanning/printing through the fog. The Cronex I'll fix out and use for some alternative process.

Is NA a company in Australia as I'd love to get my hands on fresh stock? I've found it hard to find a supplier here and what I have found will only supply the medical profession.

[Rubud]

Thanks for that. Shipping is indeed expensive from overseas.

The stock I have was given to me by a cousin of a friend who retired from radiology. By his own admission it had been "sitting around" for some time so my hopes of finding something usable weren't high to start. Thankfully the Curix-Ortho looks workable of which I'll have more than enough when cut down to 4x5 (100 sheets 7"x17" + 50 sheets 14"x36"). There's also 300 sheets (14"x17") of Curix UVG that is yet to be tested.


NA = North America

NOS = New Old Stock

Australia is way out of my league, shipping is beyond too high

Most of the world is eliminating analog X-Ray asap, but maybe still in demand for veterinarians in the outback

I expect fresh will be gone soon in USA

[Tin Can]

Great!

Post images when you can and if they are 4X5 and above negs, post in normal film OR X-Ray as it IS real film!

I knew one Australian on Walkabout 25 years ago, he was young and fun!


Thanks for that. Shipping is indeed expensive from overseas.

The stock I have was given to me by a cousin of a friend who retired from radiology. By his own admission it had been "sitting around" for some time so my hopes of finding something usable weren't high to start. Thankfully the Curix-Ortho looks workable of which I'll have more than enough when cut down to 4x5 (100 sheets 7"x17" + 50 sheets 14"x36"). There's also 300 sheets (14"x17") of Curix UVG that is yet to be tested.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51946522165_181ff34c85_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n9kvfv)18x24cm Mammo Norma 121mm F45 18 pops C171 Beauty Light Grid (https://flic.kr/p/2n9kvfv) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Testing Kodak Mammography 18x24cm in HC-110 "H" 6.5 mins at ambient. 8x10 Sinar Norma 121mm F8 Sinar Norma Schneider Super Angulon on Norma Vertical Copy Arrangement. Shooting straight down at F45. Broncolor C171 Monolight with Broncolor Blue Pulso Beauty Dish, popped eighteen times with shutter on "B" to build up the density. Contact printed Omega DII with Omegaite Arista RC #2 Matte paper Multigrade developer. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and was blown up by me at Costco. It was dark red so I guess I should have expected a lack of density on the right. Live and learn. Highlight tonality looks decent to me. 18x24 XRay film is easy and fun to shoot

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51824658184_1acf26cc42_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mXyVko)Sinar Norma 8x10 Overhead Reflex Rig (https://flic.kr/p/2mXyVko) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Jim Noel]

With apologies, I'm not sure what NOS is. The film however is analogue (along with my intended use). I haven't done any field test as yet but I'm thinking the Curix could be shot around EI 25 as a starter and see how I go about scanning/printing through the fog. The Cronex I'll fix out and use for some alternative process.

Is NA a company in Australia as I'd love to get my hands on fresh stock? I've found it hard to find a supplier here and what I have found will only supply the medical profession.

A few years ago I had the problem of finding a company which would ship to me. I asked my doctor of many years if he could order for me and he did so.

[Pritcher]

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Western Blot 5x7 Xray film. I just bought 100 sheets on Amazon and I really do not know much about it. I want to use Fa-1027 developer given its favorable properties, but there is very very little info out there about that too haha. I likely will just have to do some trial and error, but boy am I glad to finally have an alternative to Arista Ortho Litho with my 5x7 Press Graflex. At any rate, insight of the sort would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Tin Can]

Well, who knows, never heard of it

However Amazon does sell known X-ray

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Medium-Speed-Green-X-Ray/dp/B00B5VAJEA/ref=pd_day0_7/130-2388948-7933346?pd_rd_w=yrd2C&pf_rd_p=8ca997d7-1ea0-4c8f-9e14-a6d756b83e30&pf_rd_r=1B1AECM6AP4C8G3DVPJX&pd_rd_r=9d271049-f82a-44f7-9829-0838dfd881ef&pd_rd_wg=ArxkL&pd_rd_i=B00B5VAJEA&psc=1

Good luck and let us know

I carefully cut X-Ray to many sizes

[seezee]

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Western Blot 5x7 Xray film. I just bought 100 sheets on Amazon and I really do not know much about it. I want to use Fa-1027 developer given its favorable properties, but there is very very little info out there about that too haha. I likely will just have to do some trial and error, but boy am I glad to finally have an alternative to Arista Ortho Litho with my 5x7 Press Graflex. At any rate, insight of the sort would be appreciated.

Cheers

I'm going to save you some time in digging through this thread. Start by rating it at ISO 25 in midday light. If you are shooting in natural light, the film loses speed in early morning and late afternoon as the light gets warmer — it's blue or green sensitive and there's less of that wavelength at those times. Under studio lights it will be fairly consistent.

Handle with extreme care. It's coated on both sides & the emulsion is very soft, especially once it's wet. If you tray develop, use a smooth bottomed tray or put sheet of glass in the bottom or your tray.

Develop by inspection under a red (not amber) safelight.

Hope that helps. You really should start at the beginning of this thread (I know, it's a zillion pages long). That's how we all learned.

Take some test shots to hone in on your personal EI. It's cheap and since we don't know this specific film, you'll have to figure it out for all of us.

[Fr. Mark]

I have trouble remembering the distinctions between Western from Southern and so-on for the "blots." They are used for finding and analysis of cellular components in molecular biology. usually the material of interest is "labelled" with radioactivity, sometimes fluorescent dyes. The radioactive ones, presumably western blots here, are detected/visualized by putting the "gel" used for separating the components onto the Xray film where the radiation then "exposes" the film. usu. the radiation is typically beta, I don't think gamma/Xray is typical, but it has been a long time since I've studied this stuff in any detail. I'd expect beta to fog the film better than gamma/Xray. In old film X-rays, the film is mostly NOT exposed directly by the X-rays, but rather the X-rays interact with a phosphorescent set of screens (one for each side of the typically double sided emulsion) and the screens make the light (blue or green) that interacts with the films. usually you are looking for certain proteins or DNA or RNA or fragments thereof, sometimes there's a lane with a "ladder" or series of molecules of known mass or charges or migration characteristics. The "gel" is a special gelatin or agarose etc with substantial pores. This allows the v. large molecules to move under electromotive force from an applied voltage, assuming they are charged and they usually are. Molecules move from the origin different amounts based on size or charge or maybe both. I believe pre-cast gels exist to purchase, speeding things up, but the running of separation takes a few hours, I think, and the visualization maybe a few hours more, again, I think. If this stuff interests you, google or a modern biochem book will have more information for you. I suspect the films will be single sided as there'd be no point for a second emulsion, not have an anti-halation layer, but I've not run a gel in 30 years and that one we used a special dye spray that likes DNA to find the materials, not radioactivity, so as car commercials say, "your mileage may vary."

[Pritcher]

However Amazon does sell known X-ray

Quick update, I got a message from Amazon saying my order couldn’t be filled, so I took it as a sign and bought some of the stuff listed in the link. So thanks for clueing me in on that bit. I also realized it would be more cost effective to simply cut down the larger sheets to 5x7. At any rate, I still doubt that there is any info out there for Fa-1027 development on this. Thanks Seezee for the tips, those will come in very handy when this stuff arrives. Also if there are any Graflex SLR users in the room, does anyone have any experience with this stuff in bagmags? I shoot almost entirely with bagmags, and I hope that they aren’t too rough on the film, both during loading and during cycling.

Cheers

[Tin Can]

I have used 2X (double-sided X-Ray in Mag Bags

Works fine, cut carefully

My bigger problem is flap-flap-flap, a sound I hate

I bet you know it!

I think I have 5 SLR Graflex that all worked a short time, until flap- flap-flap under low tension

The 2X3 looks unused, but very difficult to disassemble the winder pin. The bigger ones are easier, a bolt

I use a lot of X-Ray from Hasselblad sheet film holders to any size larger including 14X36"

A warning, buy now if you like it, USA is converting to DIGI X-Ray asap

Products are discontinued all the time

The good news, it seems to age well under HVAC conditions, I don't freeze it

A few of us here have lifetime supplies

I buy this now and always from ZZ https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film/8x10-in-fuji-x-ray-film.html

[Tin Can]

Try ASA 50

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51974286563_ae5d059d49_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2)18x24 Mammo Sinar Norma 300 Xenar Arista No 2 RC (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Second test of 18x24cm Kodak Min-R XRay film developed 18 minutes at 60C Straight replenished Legacy Mic-X. 300mm Schneider Xenar barrel lens AT f22 Yellow Filter. Four pops Broncolor C171 Beauty Light Contact Print 8x10 Arista #2 RC Multigrade dev. Again interesting how the red flowers go deep black.

[the4x5project]

This is lovely. I like the faint background light too.

[Daniel Unkefer]

This is lovely. I like the faint background light too.

Thanks the4x5project ! :) XRay is fun to do. I still enjoy watching the image coming up in the Cesco tray. My lights are bright enough that I can see the shadow detail very well. Controlling high values seems to be the challenge. My gallon of Microdol-X is over two years old but still very active and seems fine. Very economic in that aspect.

[agustin.gd]

226144

226145
226146
226147

Hello to everyone. I have been away for quite a while now, but i will try to keep posting some experiments with lenses and examples.

5x7 x-ray film - developed in Rodinal-

From top to bottom, left and right column:

photo 1: MOM 497mm at f 6,2 - 1/2 second

photo 2: Brown MFG 19 inches at f 32 - 3 seconds

photo 3: unbranded weitwinkel 110mm f 8 - 1 second

[agustin.gd]

226148
226149
226150

from previous post

photo 4: meniscus 250mm on 3d printed body and home made f 10 stop - 2 seconds

photo 5: rapid euryscope at f 6 2 seconds

photo 6: E. Francais 210mm at f 4,5 with 4 seconds.

There where big clouds, so the sunlight was going back and forth, and thats why the exposure times are so mixed. Also i thought i could be a nice opportunity to experiment with the limits of the film.

I hope you all enjoy, and as always, feedback, questions, comments and critique is very welcomed.

A great weekend to everyone!!!

[Tin Can]

YES!

X-Ray is good for many things

If I buy an ARCA, I will test it with X-Ray

Rod, more than likely I am not a buyer, as I have Norma and Linhof Studio cameras

I like to dream




226144

226145
226146
226147

Hello to everyone. I have been away for quite a while now, but i will try to keep posting some experiments with lenses and examples.

5x7 x-ray film - developed in Rodinal-

From top to bottom, left and right column:

photo 1: MOM 497mm at f 6,2 - 1/2 second

photo 2: Brown MFG 19 inches at f 32 - 3 seconds

photo 3: unbranded weitwinkel 110mm f 8 - 1 second

[Jim Noel]

Try a less active developer, like D-23 or HC110 1+80 to1+100.

[Kiwi7475]

I am able to tame the high intrinsic contrast of HR-U by using 510 Pyro in stand development. It also means less agitation so less chance of scratches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daniel Unkefer]

I tried HC-110 "H" and got pretty contrasty results. Mic-X is a soft developer, but not with MIN-R. Drat.

Two developers I want to experiment with next, are D23 which I've been using and like it with all my crazy mix of Pancro films, and also Pyro PMK+. I have a bottle of PMK I recently decanted into smaller bottles, and now it's time to get out the Amidol, which makes it PMK Pyro+. Adds genuinely about a half stop of measurable emulsion speed. My fave soup of all time, which I have not used for more than twenty five years. I used a flat toothpick to scoop and dump the Amidol. Turns Pyro some wild rainbow colors which change quickly so gotta be quick starting up development. A lot of chemical change obviously going on there. The increase in shadow density is measurable 1/3-1/2 stop

More fun ahead

[agustin.gd]

Thanks everyone for their input.

It got much better with the lines and developing marks, and i guess i did too much agitation this time. But so far, 10ml of Rodinal in 1 liter of water has given me nice results. I have tried HC-110 but it was last year and i still was making a lot of mistakes with the dilution and general developing process.

I think i will give it a try at some point this year, maybe when i ran out of Rodinal.

[Tin Can]

Rodinol works well for me too

Been using it for 8 years, easy mix, I use whatever is cheapest and stock up

In OE bottle it seems to last nearly forever

I use for 35mm, 120 roll and 2X3 sheets in SS cans 4X5 to 8X10 on hangers

But I waste some as I always mix 1/100 to make 1 L, I never store mixed

In my 4 L gas burst tanks, I fill with distilled water, then add the R0d9nol and run gas bursts 10 cycles to mix

I stop with distilled water and reuse TF5 nearly forever as it seems to last too long

I test my TF5 every usage with X-Ray cutoffs for time to clear

Rodinol is 100% exhausted at 20 minutes regardless, use it immediately

I like simple solutions

pun intended

ULF X-Ray I mix Ilford PQ Universal Developer (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/271232-
REG/Ilford_1155091_PQ_Universal_Paper_Developer.html) and use trays

[morecfm]

Hello: I've kind of been lurking on this thread. I'm a first-time user of Fujifilm HR-U which also is my first time in 8x10 and tray developing. From previous reading elsewhere, I rated the film at ISO 100 and developed with HC-110 dilution B for 5 minutes. Results indicate over exposure by quite a bit. Also, as first time tray developing film, I dinged up the film during processing but I knew this was a possibility with this film. The film is drying now, so I will see how it scans tomorrow. I'm just wondering if I over exposed, over developed or a combination of both.

I'm going to be doing some serious bracketing to see what will work the best if my developing time and strength are close to recommended.

[maltfalc]

Hello: I've kind of been lurking on this thread. I'm a first-time user of Fujifilm HR-U which also is my first time in 8x10 and tray developing. From previous reading elsewhere, I rated the film at ISO 100 and developed with HC-110 dilution B for 5 minutes. Results indicate over exposure by quite a bit. Also, as first time tray developing film, I dinged up the film during processing but I knew this was a possibility with this film. The film is drying now, so I will see how it scans tomorrow. I'm just wondering if I over exposed, over developed or a combination of both.

I'm going to be doing some serious bracketing to see what will work the best if my developing time and strength are close to recommended.

blue or green? don't expect anyone to tell you if you overexposed or overdeveloped when none of us can see the negative.

[Tin Can]

Too many unknown variables to consider any solution

I use Green X-Ray which is NOT GREEN, as it is cheapest

I use known shutters with known apertures and always consider bellows factor. I test my shutters with a discontinued iPhone gismo

Daylight varies continuously, some meters are not correct

I mostly shoot studio flash, same 4 for years, very stable

A very good modern Sekonic Flash Meter is essential for me

However in daylight I always guess exposure by Sunny 16, as I shot Sunny 16 ONLY for 40 years

Then I check with Sekonic

[morecfm]

blue or green? don't expect anyone to tell you if you overexposed or overdeveloped when none of us can see the negative.

I believe the film is green. Here's a scan of one of the negatives.226227

Photo of film hanging from drying: 226228

Photo of film with back light: 226229

Again first time using this camera and the lenses. Trying x-ray film as an "economical" way to experiment

My notes indicate f/16 @ 1/25 second but shutter speed to be verified. Sunny day. aah, sunny 16 would indicate 1/100 second @ iso 100 rating.

[morecfm]

Too many unknown variables to consider any solution

I use Green X-Ray which is NOT GREEN, as it is cheapest

I use known shutters with known apertures and always consider bellows factor. I test my shutters with a discontinued iPhone gismo

Daylight varies continuously, some meters are not correct

I mostly shoot studio flash, same 4 for years, very stable

A very good modern Sekonic Flash Meter is essential for me

However in daylight I always guess exposure by Sunny 16, as I shot Sunny 16 ONLY for 40 years

Then I check with Sekonic

I'll check the shutter and verify. I am going to do some more experimenting at different film speed "ratings" and compare against "sunny 16" Just checked my notes exposure was f/16 at 1/25 second. Sunny 16 should have indicated 1/100 second at iso 100 film rating.

Lots of variables and note taking ahead.

I seem to have done pretty well with typical 4x5 films and roll films.

[the4x5project]

Hello: I've kind of been lurking on this thread. I'm a first-time user of Fujifilm HR-U which also is my first time in 8x10 and tray developing. From previous reading elsewhere, I rated the film at ISO 100 and developed with HC-110 dilution B for 5 minutes. Results indicate over exposure by quite a bit. Also, as first time tray developing film, I dinged up the film during processing but I knew this was a possibility with this film. The film is drying now, so I will see how it scans tomorrow. I'm just wondering if I over exposed, over developed or a combination of both.

I'm going to be doing some serious bracketing to see what will work the best if my developing time and strength are close to recommended.

I rate this film around EI80-100 and develop in HC-110 1+47 for 6 minutes or 1+63 for 7 minutes.
So if you are using Dil B time should be around 3 minutes.
Hope this helps.

[largeformatposer88]

Hello all,

I'm new to the site and to this thread, and I will soon be delving into X-ray film for use with a 5x7 camera (I ordered the Fuji 8x10 green film and intend to cut it to fit my holders).

I plan on using D23 diluted quite a bit. Does anyone have any suggestions for dilution and development times? I've been clicking through the pages but haven't found this yet. Thanks!

[morecfm]

I rate this film around EI80-100 and develop in HC-110 1+47 for 6 minutes or 1+63 for 7 minutes.
So if you are using Dil B time should be around 3 minutes.
Hope this helps.

Thanks. This will give me a place to start over again. This is information I am looking for.

[morecfm]

Too many unknown variables to consider any solution

I use Green X-Ray which is NOT GREEN, as it is cheapest

I use known shutters with known apertures and always consider bellows factor. I test my shutters with a discontinued iPhone gismo

Daylight varies continuously, some meters are not correct

I mostly shoot studio flash, same 4 for years, very stable

A very good modern Sekonic Flash Meter is essential for me

However in daylight I always guess exposure by Sunny 16, as I shot Sunny 16 ONLY for 40 years

Then I check with Sekonic

I'm getting some answers. I checked the shutter speed with an Iphone app with an optical adapter. 1/25 on the ilex lens was actually 1/5 and the compur shutter 1/9 second. A scenario ripe for over exposure. Now to keep the results with my kit. I need to learn to use longer shutter speeds with these lenses.

Now to test my 4x5 kit. (more lenses, more work)

[Fr. Mark]

Testing old shutters is smart!
The “green” refers to spectral sensitivity range and was intended to let the medical user know what kind of film holder with what specific phosphor lining to use to convert the X-rays to visible light to enhance sensitivity and lower the X-ray dose to the patient.
Since your film doesn’t “see” the entire visible light spectrum your light meter, even if modern, will sometimes suggest incorrect exposures. Early in the day or late in the day it can be up to several stops wrong because the color of the light is more toward the red (insensitive) portion of the spectrum. Incandescent light or similar color temperature fluorescent or LED indoors will also do this. I’d expect studio flash to be better because it is more full spectrum and very repeatable.

[Eugen Mezei]

Putting in front of the lightmeter's sensor a filter that cuts away the spectrum the film does not see, will it force the meter to give result more in the range of the film.
In pracitcal terms: measuring trough a green filter will it give more accurate results, even late/early in the day?

[maltfalc]

Putting in front of the lightmeter's sensor a filter that cuts away the spectrum the film does not see, will it force the meter to give result more in the range of the film.
In pracitcal terms: measuring trough a green filter will it give more accurate results, even late/early in the day?

green x-ray film is orthochromatic, so you want a cyan filter.

[Tin Can]

Have you tried that?

I have not

I have not seen anything about it in the X-Ray thread


green x-ray film is orthochromatic, so you want a cyan filter.

[Eugen Mezei]

Why cyan an not green?

[Tin Can]

Blue skies


Why cyan an not green?

[Eugen Mezei]

But you cut the blue away with the yellow filter you put on the taking lens.

Btw, where can one buy cyan filters?

[Tin Can]

Show and tell please
I don’t use filters


But you cut the blue away with the yellow filter you put on the taking lens.

Btw, where can one buy cyan filters?

[Tin Can]

Eugen

Do you only do research?

I just reviewed your posts to 2013

Your language seems to be american english

I see you bought some x-Ray a while back

Did you try it?


But you cut the blue away with the yellow filter you put on the taking lens.

Btw, where can one buy cyan filters?

[Michael R]

The idea behind using a cyan filter on the meter would be to make the meter “see” more like the film does. Loosely speaking, an orthochromatic film can’t see red light, so if the meter can’t see red light either, it might give more useful exposure readings for the film. It’s not going to work perfectly but anyway. A cyan filter such as the Wratten 44A (“minus red”) would be one to try. This assumes no filter on the taking lens.

If you use a yellow filter on the taking lens, to attenuate blue, you’re effectively using mostly green light to expose the film, in which case a green filter on the meter would better approximate how the film sees.

These will only be approximate adjustments due to the inherent differences in spectral sensitivities of the meter and film. Obviously the specific filter used on the taking lens will affect this.

[Tin Can]

Well done Michael R

Eugen, ask him questions

Thank you both

[Eugen Mezei]

Michael, that is exactly what I meant. Thank you for explaining it better. Also thanks for mentioning the minus red filter, I will look out for one.

Tin Can: Nope, my English is not american. It is just bad. Where are you from? I bought a lot of X-ray from German Ebay.

[Tin Can]

I am from the middle of USA, Chicago

Moved often since child

I bought only from https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

I experiment more than some members like

rules are to be broken

[Andrew O'Neill]

If you want slightly darker blue sky, or better separation between cloud and sky, with green latitude x-ray film, use a yellow filter. The strongest I have used is a #15.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50547233136_f496b269a7_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1FMnA)Ashton Pond Norma Handy HRU Mic-X (https://flic.kr/p/2k1FMnA) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50549038488_b5881ae3bc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m)Ashton Pond Norma Handy HRU Mic-X 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr


Sinar Norma 4x5 Custom Made HANDY 4x5 XRAY HRU 1 sec F22 Sinar Norma Medium Yellow 108mm Glass Disk. Camera mounted on Star-D tripod. Legacy Mic-X Replenished Straight in Cesco flat bottomed tray under red safelight. Omega DII 180mm black Rodagon laser aligned. Arista RC #2 Multigrade dev

The yellow filter darkened the sky slightly. I prefer this

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470038238_c8636493da_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTS925)HRU Filter test 1 YG 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTS925) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470060843_24001c7bc5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSfJP)HRU Filter test 2 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSfJP) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470768906_375ae8cac8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTVTdN)HRU Filter test 3 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTVTdN) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470083408_4527099208_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSnrS)HRU Filter test 4 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSnrS) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Testing the Norma 108mm Glass Disks Yellow Green versus Dark Yellow. I like em both

I prefer to shoot 9x12cm with the Handy as it's pushing it to use it with 4x5. You can seen the darkening in the corners. It really dosen't cover even with center filter. Sinar Norma 9x12cm holders are much better for my uses

[Tin Can]

Very good 'SHOW and Tell'

This is exactly what we need more of

Thank you!


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470038238_c8636493da_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTS925)HRU Filter test 1 YG 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTS925) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470060843_24001c7bc5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSfJP)HRU Filter test 2 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSfJP) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470768906_375ae8cac8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTVTdN)HRU Filter test 3 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTVTdN) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50470083408_4527099208_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSnrS)HRU Filter test 4 Yellow Dark 103mm Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2jTSnrS) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Testing the Norma 108mm Glass Disks Yellow Green versus Dark Yellow. I like em both

I prefer to shoot 9x12cm with the Handy as it's pushing it to use it with 4x5. You can seen the darkening in the corners. It really dosen't cover even with center filter. Sinar Norma 9x12cm holders are much better for my uses

[Daniel Unkefer]

You're Welcome TC

[kdotlowe]

What's everyones recommendations for exposure when shooting with strobes? I've been shooting Fuji HRU recently at ISO 80, developing in XTOL 1:1 for 6 mins. Getting good results with natural light portraits but VERY thin negs when shooting with strobes (Broncolor Mobilites / Godox AD300). What's a good starting point for exposure? Do I need to drop to around 20 or so?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Do a ring-around bracketing, take copious notes, and then you will know. I use old Blue Broncolor Pulso Monolights and packs with XRay. Often I get into doing multiple pops of the strobe, if not dealing with moving subjects.

How under are your results approximately? I would adjust to that median, and bracket 1/2 stops both ways in your tests. Then let us know the results here :)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51974286563_ae5d059d49_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2)18x24 Mammo Sinar Norma 300 Xenar Arista No 2 RC (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This was four pops of Broncolor C171 375 watt seconds. Background painted by David Maheu

[kdotlowe]

Great, thank you! I'll run some tests today. My negs were pretty much transparent with only a little highlight detail - but funnily enough, the scanner provided somewhat usable images. I'm shooting portraits mainly so multiple pops won't be an option. My Broncolors however can put out a combined 2800w/s so shouldn't be an issue haha.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I have two Broncolor Pulso 606 packs which will do each do 6000ws in a single pop. Get out your sunglasses LOL

Good Luck and post some results here

[kdotlowe]

I'll share some recent portraits... The studio/flash lit ones are super thin negs which the scanner managed to recover...kind of.

226602

226603

226604

[Daniel Unkefer]

I'll share some recent portraits... The studio/flash lit ones are super thin negs which the scanner managed to recover...kind of.

226602

226603

226604

Those are excellent

[kdotlowe]

And here's a quick test. Shot at EI 10 with a single godox AD300 strobe. Straight out of the scanner.

226608

[seezee]

What's everyones recommendations for exposure when shooting with strobes? I've been shooting Fuji HRU recently at ISO 80, developing in XTOL 1:1 for 6 mins. Getting good results with natural light portraits but VERY thin negs when shooting with strobes (Broncolor Mobilites / Godox AD300). What's a good starting point for exposure? Do I need to drop to around 20 or so?

I use PCB Einsteins with Carestream half-speed blue in the studio. I rate the film ISO 25 under those conditions. But bear in mind I'm using a Packard shutter — so I'm not sure how accurate the nominal 1/25th second exposure is. I suppose I could put a modern lens with a Copal shutter on my camera & do some tests. If I do I'll let you know the results.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Good lows, mids and highs. Looks like you nailed it XTOL six minutes? So now u know

[kdotlowe]

Have been playing a little bit more wit the Xray. Fuji HRU. IE 10 with only strobe light, XTOL 1:1 6 Minutes.

227242

[Andrew O'Neill]

Kallitype print made from 14x17 double-sided, green latitude. Developed in D-23 1+1 in a flat-bottomed tray. I posted the video in the On Photography section.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52069719581_72626fbd50_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkdVxT)South Lawn Bld (https://flic.kr/p/2nkdVxT) by Andrew O'Neill (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62974341@N02/), on Flickr

[mohmadkhatab]

It most likely is over-exposed. Have yu tried it at a speed of 100? 200?
What developer and for how long?
I have found that most x-ray films will yield a reasonable negative at a speed of 100, exposed during the middle of the day.
Perhaps your developer is too active. Have you ried diluting it 1 part developer and 2 parts water?
Are you developing under a red safelight kept at least 4 ft away? This wil give yo the oportunity to watch it develop, andmy money is on your under-developing in the beginning.
Hello Mr. Jim
Please, I would like to have some help.
This is my first time developing an X-ray film and I was hoping for some guidance.

This is Fuji Blue X-ray film. Filmed at ISO 25 with a 4x5 camera
I have the original Rodinal raw.
I have a reel for development that I have 3D printed, because I use dishes as I don't have a safe light.
according to your ink,
Optimal Rodinal Dilution
Suggested time, temperature, agitation.
thank you very much .
228026

[Jim Noel]

What's everyones recommendations for exposure when shooting with strobes? I've been shooting Fuji HRU recently at ISO 80, developing in XTOL 1:1 for 6 mins. Getting good results with natural light portraits but VERY thin negs when shooting with strobes (Broncolor Mobilites / Godox AD300). What's a good starting point for exposure? Do I need to drop to around 20 or so?

Exposure with electronic flash depends on the unit. They put out different amounts of blue and UV which are important to the x-ray film. I wonder if adding a blue gel would help decrease the amount of exposure needed.

[Jim Noel]

Hello all,

I'm new to the site and to this thread, and I will soon be delving into X-ray film for use with a 5x7 camera (I ordered the Fuji 8x10 green film and intend to cut it to fit my holders).

I plan on using D23 diluted quite a bit. Does anyone have any suggestions for dilution and development times? I've been clicking through the pages but haven't found this yet. Thanks!

I don't know what you mean by "quite a bit", but most people I know use it at 1:3. Since I develop everything by inspection, i can't suggest times.

[Mike_E]

Exposure with electronic flash depends on the unit. They put out different amounts of blue and UV which are important to the x-ray film. I wonder if adding a blue gel would help decrease the amount of exposure needed.

I may be wrong but a filter being subtractive it wouldn't add any more of the required wavelengths to the emulsion and so at least do nothing and probably just increase the needed power from the strobe.

[Tin Can]

Jim is correct as always

I wish I had been told to to process by inspection 11 years ago

However, I process often in gas burst tanks with 1/100 Rodinol and you will need to find your own times, temps, agitation

Plan on running 100 sheets just testing




I don't know what you mean by "quite a bit", but most people I know use it at 1:3. Since I develop everything by inspection, i can't suggest times.

[mohmadkhatab]

Jim is correct as always

I wish I had been told to to process by inspection 11 years ago

However, I process often in gas burst tanks with 1/100 Rodinol and you will need to find your own times, temps, agitation

Plan on running 100 sheets just testing

228038228038

The first picture is with Rodinal
Second photo with Kalogen 1:100 - - 5 minutes - 25 degrees Celsius
Continuous agitation at 8 rpm228039

[Tin Can]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?168358-I-accidentally-got-(PPD)-I-want-a-concentrated-recipe



228038228038

The first picture is with Rodinal
Second photo with Kalogen 1:100 - - 5 minutes - 25 degrees Celsius
Continuous agitation at 8 rpm228039

[Randy]

Well, I am getting the feeling that the quality control in manufacturing of Fuji Xray film is lacking. Over the past 4-5 years I have purchased five 100 sheet boxes. All have been 8X10 but my most recent is 7X17. I got a very similar defect in one of the 8X10 boxes as I am now getting in my 7X17 box.

Shot and processed this morning trying out my home-made back that I mount on my 8X10 camera:
https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/krir7tzm1e267dc/7X15_1a.jpg?raw=1


The negative is covered with little dots of minus density. I purchased this box new back in December and recently opened it. It has been stored at room temp.
https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/otecebvsz539sgb/7X15_1a2.jpg?raw=1

Both bad boxes are Fuji Super - one is HR-T and one HR-U, purchased several years apart. Both are the Green sensitive.

So, my experience with Fuji Xray film is not very good.

[Tin Can]

Did it come from eBay?

99% of my X-Ray bought in date from ZZ a major X-Ray products for 'real' medical X-Ray supplier


Well, I am getting the feeling that the quality control in manufacturing of Fuji Xray film is lacking. Over the past 4-5 years I have purchased five 100 sheet boxes. All have been 8X10 but my most recent is 7X17. I got a very similar defect in one of the 8X10 boxes as I am now getting in my 7X17 box.

Shot and processed this morning trying out my home-made back that I mount on my 8X10 camera:
https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/krir7tzm1e267dc/7X15_1a.jpg?raw=1


The negative is covered with little dots of minus density. I purchased this box new back in December and recently opened it. It has been stored at room temp.
https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/otecebvsz539sgb/7X15_1a2.jpg?raw=1

Both bad boxes are Fuji Super - one is HR-T and one HR-U, purchased several years apart. Both are the Green sensitive.

So, my experience with Fuji Xray film is not very good.

[Corran]

That's interesting. I've shot a lot of the Fuji and never seen that. Out of curiosity, what developer?

[Andrew O'Neill]

Are you sure it's not caused by you? I ask because I had similar flaws with Ektascan. I was using Obisidian Aqua and semi-stand at the time, citric acid stop, and Ilford Rapid fix. I switched to D-23, and reduced fix time to one minute. Problem solved. It could have been caused by the OA, and semi-stand, I don't know...

[Aerostigmat]

Hi,

Does anyone know if they made film development hangers for full plate (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) film?

My usual development for X-ray (4x5, 5x7 and 8x10) is on hangers in tanks. Its the only way I avoid scratching the film.

Thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Randy]

Are you sure it's not caused by you? I ask because I had similar flaws with Ektascan. I was using Obisidian Aqua and semi-stand at the time, citric acid stop, and Ilford Rapid fix. I switched to D-23, and reduced fix time to one minute. Problem solved. It could have been caused by the OA, and semi-stand, I don't know...

I am sure it could be something that I am doing. I will just have to experiment...I guess. Could be fixing to long - like 4 minutes...? Just a water stop-bath.


Did it come from eBay?

99% of my X-Ray bought in date from ZZ a major X-Ray products for 'real' medical X-Ray supplier

Got it from ZZ.


That's interesting. I've shot a lot of the Fuji and never seen that. Out of curiosity, what developer?

Adox Rodinal 1:100, 75° for 4.5 minutes.

[Tin Can]

They must have, but not for USA

I too have looked

Perhaps cut some down, tiny cutting wheel

It can be done


Hi,

Does anyone know if they made film development hangers for full plate (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) film?

My usual development for X-ray (4x5, 5x7 and 8x10) is on hangers in tanks. Its the only way I avoid scratching the film.

Thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Eugen Mezei]

Shot and processed this morning trying out my home-made back that I mount on my 8X10 camera:


Let us see that back.

[Randy]

Let us see that back.

https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/24xyl49y2c5z8wi/8x15d.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2jfgkfiwq4a5qfw/8x15e.jpg?raw=1

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hi,

Does anyone know if they made film development hangers for full plate (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) film?

My usual development for X-ray (4x5, 5x7 and 8x10) is on hangers in tanks. Its the only way I avoid scratching the film.

Thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers


Smooth, flat-bottomed trays are perfectly safe with double-sided films. I got rid of my hangers (for 8x10), as way too much solutions were required to process. Gentle agitation is key. Since switching to flat-bottomed trays, I've never had any scratching. I process 8x10 and 14x17.

[Tin Can]

Doublegood!


https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/24xyl49y2c5z8wi/8x15d.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2jfgkfiwq4a5qfw/8x15e.jpg?raw=1

[Fr. Mark]

What is the source of the whole plate film? Cut down from larger or purpose bought that size? I've been figuring that since I don't have holders or a camera for that size (yet) I might just shoot 8x10 and mask to come up with whole plate if I wanted to experiment more with the format. Alternatively, I might cut something down to that film size and magnetically or gaffer's tape it into an 8x10 holder. There's something about that shape that I really like.

[Roger Thoms]

Whole plate film is offered on the Ilford Ultra Large Format (ULF) Campaign. All the info is here including the a list of participating dealers. https://www.ilfordphoto.com/annual-ulf-sheet-film-ordering-window-for-2022/

Roger

[Aerostigmat]

Whole plate film is offered on the Ilford Ultra Large Format (ULF) Campaign. All the info is here including the a list of participating dealers. https://www.ilfordphoto.com/annual-ulf-sheet-film-ordering-window-for-2022/

Roger

Thanks for the responses guys...

I had thought to cut down existing hangers but had hoped someone had an easier / simpler solution...:( I'll keep looking, perhaps on auction sites overseas.

So glad smooth trays are working well for you, that's awesome!! :D
I've been processing X-ray film since the 1980's. Professionally for decades and then for fun over the last 15 years. Unfortunately Ive never found any other method beside tanks and hangers that gave me the results I'm looking for.

[Tin Can]

Your X-Ray experience is very welcome here

We have been flying blind for years

Please tell us how it WAS done and how it is now

I use Arkay tanks and hangers with gas burst

One shot Rodinol, water stop and TF5 fix seems to last forever, I change it out by surface area

Please




Thanks for the responses guys...

I had thought to cut down existing hangers but had hoped someone had an easier / simpler solution...:( I'll keep looking, perhaps on auction sites overseas.

So glad smooth trays are working well for you, that's awesome!! :D
I've been processing X-ray film since the 1980's. Professionally for decades and then for fun over the last 15 years. Unfortunately Ive never found any other method beside tanks and hangers that gave me the results I'm looking for.

[Aerostigmat]

Your X-Ray experience is very welcome here

We have been flying blind for years

Please tell us how it WAS done and how it is now

I use Arkay tanks and hangers with gas burst

One shot Rodinol, water stop and TF5 fix seems to last forever, I change it out by surface area

Please

Sounds like you have it under control :)

My experience started with hangers in a large darkroom tank (medical) that housed Dev/stop/fix and would easily fit 14x17 chest films. It looked like a deep stainless garage sink, 20in wide by 20 inches deep by 20+ inches tall on a stand that bought it up to approx 32 inches from the ground. Then years later in a hospital environment we had a automated system. Our tech managed that so Im not really sure of the inner workings / details. When I started doing this at home for fun I went back to tanks as I didn't shoot enough film to justify a processor. Not to mention my wife would probably have drawn the line at that one :) I did try trays and bags and ended up with more scratches and artifacts than I wanted to deal with.
For developer I use Dektol, diluted 1:12, development times from 75-90 seconds. Agitation and temp have been the keys for me, and it varies with film type. Also cooling the developer down to 58-60 degrees helps with contrast.
Initally I tried the blue sensitive film for pictorial use, but didn't like it and have used the green sensitive emulsion ever since. I only shoot this stuff on cloudy days when cast shadows are at a minimum. Recently I did try some R09 one shot developer and got favorable results. But I'm not really that keen on the 30 minute development time. Dektol has spoiled me over the years, and the older I get... the less patience I seem to have. :)

Here's a couple of examples from my flickr page, Redwood trees are with Dektol and the gas mask was with RO9.
Just so you know I'm not a poser ;):D

Cheers,
Jonathan.228995228996

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52222110706_847c55c011_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nyFY85)18x24 Mammo Shortie Sawed Off Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2nyFY85) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is a test shot (my Shorty Norma) French Kodak 18x24cm Mammo Film, processed in D23 1:1. Taking camera is my new Annie/Avedon inspired 8x10 Norma. I applied 30 degrees of front and rear swing, the Norma original recessed lensboard is sharp all the way across the field. I like how the DOF drops off with the 360mm f5.6 Norma Symmar. There appears to be highlight blooming, which I find kind of attractive. Best thing about this film was that it was not at all expensive. And I have a lot of it

My "Shorty Sawed-Off Norma" has a basic rail cut down, to just accomodate a 120mm lens. Here it is shown with the 47mm f8 Super Angulon, which I am looking forward to using a lot with 2x3 and 6x9. This is not a telephoto camera, but I can easily lift and carry it with one hand without strain. The lowly Star-D tripod is sturdy enough with this setup, given proper time to settle down. I cut both ends off a basic Norma rail with my Lil Machine Shop Bandsaw. So it is now simply a hollow tube perfect length for Field and Architecture.

Cesco Tray developed under deep deep red safelight. 6.5 minutes at 20C

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50581176163_33bb3e5fe0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k4FKsc)Wild Apple Tree Maki II HRU Handheld 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2k4FKsc) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Handheld HRU 6.5cmx9cm XRay photography. Plaubel Makina II with Plaubel Makina Yellow Filter 1/50 at F6.0 Exposure determined by guess and experience so far. Replenished Legacy Mic-X 12 minutes at ambient. Neg is overexposed which is not right but very promising as I will decrease exposure by one and two stops next time. Also will reduce developing time to eight minutes which is more like it but this is working OK so far. Arista #2 8x10 Print Omega Dii Diffusion head laser aligned. Multigrade dev

I just mixed up a gallon of straight Dektol so I'm trying HRU in it 1:12 next for ninety seconds. Should be interesting

[Aerostigmat]

Hi,

One thing I forgot to mention with the Dektol as developer. I shoot most all of my x-ray film at anywhere from ASA-25 to ASA-6. Old Kodak X-OMAT for instance I shoot at ASA-6 and T-mat L/RA at ASA-16 indoors and ASA-25 outside.
Ive used HRU before but its been quite a while, I seem to remember the Fuji X-ray films being more contrasty....your mileage may vary :-)

Also with Dektol, the development is so fast that its critical to go from Developer to what ever your using for a stop bath, QUICKLY. :-) Don't wait for the developer to drain off a corner if your using film hangers as you will get uneven development along the edges. I use plain water for a stop bath...
Hope this helps!!

Cheers

[agustin.gd]

Hello again, everybody.

I did not quite like the results i got with the Agfa UV-G x-ray film, so i sliced down 2 more 14x17 sheets into 12 5x7.

In some of them, i did 2 or 3 exposures on the same photo by moving the dark slide a bit more each time.

I will write down how much time i did on each exposure, for example 2+2+4 seconds , meaning that the last exposure got all 8 seconds.

Something happened during development with 3 and 4. I cutted them a tiny bit too long and they bended in the hangers.

IMPORTANT CHANGE: i did the development with Rodinal 1+100, this time at 35 celcius ( 95 Fahrenheit) as recommended in the Agfa page.

Here are the results:

1- 1+1+2 seconds. measured at iso 25-Lens RF-240 f/5.6
229287

2- 2+2+4 seconds - Lens RF-240 f/5.6
229288

3- 1+5 seconds -Lens RF-240 f/11
229289

4- 3+7 seconds - Lens RF-240 f/11
229290

5- 4 seconds measured at iso 12 - Lens RF-240 f/5.6
229291

6- 1/2 seconds - iso 6 - Lens RF-240 f/8
229292

7- 15 seconds - E. Francais f/10 iso 6
229293

8- 4 seconds- E. Francais f/10 iso 25
229294

9- 2+2 seconds - Euryscope f/6 - iso 25
229295

10- 3+5 seconds- Euryscope f/6 - iso 25
229296

[agustin.gd]

and last 2 following the previous post.


11- 3 seconds - Euryscope f/6 - iso 12
229297


12- 4 + 10 seconds - Euryscope f/6 - iso 6-
229298


I hope this helps. As always, comments, opinions and recommendations are very welcome.

Thanks, and a great day for everybody!

[Roberto Nania]

Hello to all,

I'm starting shooting on Agfa CP-GU. I need an advice on a starting developing combo. I shoot few sheets at iso 25.
My idea is to use HC110 in 1+63. Temperature will be around 25°C (hot summer, no way to lower the water temperature).
What could it be a good time? 6 minutes?

Thank you

[Tin Can]

Yes, try 6 minutes

Some have tried to to find the least amount of one shot Rodinol, I use 10ml per 80 sq inches at 1/100 7 minutes 68F

Too short a time will yield this

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51371811333_1be3e6657e_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/0u99qJU4cx)3 810 2-1 Macro (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/0u99qJU4cx) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

I have said this before, all Medical X-Ray is more similar that not

It has to be, or Medical users would go nuts

Industrial X-Ray is way more expensive and SPECIAL

[captainscot]

Ektascan br/a single sided, dev. in D23 1:3 for 12 mins. Gentle agitation for the first 30 sec then 10 sec. every min. I use the SP-8X10 tray with the hold down tabs removed. 229513

[cp_photo]

It tried developing 11x14 double sided Fuji HR-U green in my Jobo print drum today and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't get marks or scratches from the ribs on the interior of the drum. This was great because I don't have room for three trays and was doing single tray processing with less than adequate results. I'm so grateful the freshly manufactured film (my latest box purchased last week has a 12/2024 expiry date) is still available. I bought it from ZZ Medical.

[Tin Can]

Wonderful!


It tried developing 11x14 double sided Fuji HR-U green in my Jobo print drum today and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't get marks or scratches from the ribs on the interior of the drum. This was great because I don't have room for three trays and was doing single tray processing with less than adequate results. I'm so grateful the freshly manufactured film (my latest box purchased last week has a 12/2024 expiry date) is still available. I bought it from ZZ Medical.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52277045839_1876760f1c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nDxwqx)Makiflex Auto 270 Tele Arton Mammo 9x12cm MicX (https://flic.kr/p/2nDxwqx) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

18x24 Kodak Mammography MINR film cut down to four 9x12cm's. Sinar Norma film holders, Plaubel Makiflex with 4x5 Adapter Back. 270 Auto Tele-Arton Yellow filter. Broncolor Portrait lighting. Microdol-X Legacy developer 12 mins 73F. 8x10 RC #2 Arista Dektol 1:2 dev. Handheld camera

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52277923765_084f75ece0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nDC2pc)Makiflex 150 F2.8 Auto Xenotar MINR Mammo (https://flic.kr/p/2nDC2pc) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Foxglove on the back deck. Plaubel Makiflex with 150mm F2.8 Schneider Auto iris Xenotar lens wide open. 4X Neutral density filter added. Kodak MINR Mammography Film 18x24cm, cut down into four 9x12cm's. Microdol-X Legacy Developer 12 minutes at 74F. Aristo #2 RC 8x10 print, Omega DII laser aligned 180mm black Rodagon, Dektol dev 1:2. Handheld which I have been doing with Makiflexes a bit.

[HT Finley]

This thread is the longest thread in internet history and I am lost for time to glean it for a few answers. I have a 7 or 8 year old box of Fuji HRT Green sensitive X ray fim and want to get busy on some basic experimentation. I know the perils of old flim, but for the moment I will put that aside. I will soon buy a fresh box if need be. I've affixed a Hoya K2 yellow filter to my lens. I need an ballpark ASA rating to start with filter factor already figured in, as the filter will remain there permanently, and a basic starting development time, temperature, and dilution with Adox Rodinal. Tray development. This is 8x10 format. Thank you.

[Corran]

EI 50 6 minutes at 68F 1:100 Rodinal

[HT Finley]

Thank you. I will start with that. I assume the EI 50 already takes into account the filter factor. I appreciate it.

[Tin Can]

No

But time of day, month etc


Thank you. I will start with that. I assume the EI 50 already takes into account the filter factor. I appreciate it.

[Bob Wagner]

Here is what I use:
D23 1+2 (Mixed from powder stock chems) 68 deg F
7 min 30 sec normal, for N+1 underexpose 1 stop, develop for 8 minutes
Open tray with plexiglass with smoothed edges in tray bottom, continuous but gentle tray agitation first 1 min 30sec. Thereafter: rock tray slightly 3 times once per minute
Be very wary of safelights, I have one specifically made for X ray film and still have to keep it over 4 feet away and pointed away from the area. I cover the tray whenever possible, and even have to be aware of illumination for the sides
Limited experience with yellow filter, not found a need to change exposure

[Bob Wagner]

Forgot to mention, I have had good results from Rodinal as well, I just don't have any and use D23 chem for other things anyway so have it on hand

[Corran]

No

But time of day, month etc

This, but experiment.

[Tin Can]

X-Ray people please see TIN Type Zebras above as he has posted charts like of olde


Here

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169911-Zebra-Tin-Type

[HT Finley]

I thought I'd report back with preliminary results from today, based on just 2 sheets of film. This is not conclusive, obviously. I was an on-and-off stormy day. Nice puffy clouds and blue sky alternating to storm overcast and rain, back and forth all day. I wanted some blue sky and puffy summer clouds, so I had to jump in from minute to minute. This is Fuji HRT, 8 years old, with a Hoya K2 yellow filter permanently fastened to the rear element of my Bausch and Lomb 12 inch lens in a Betax #4 shutter. First sheet exposed at ASA 25 and developed 5 minutes, 75 degrees in Rodinal 3ml to 10 ounce water. Results: printable, but not perfect. The second ASA 12 same developer and dilution 4 minutes, 75F. On the second, the film showed more printable sky, but a bit lacking in the shadows. More tests are needed. At this time, I believe ASA 12 and 4 1/2 minutes 75F looks like a good place. I was particularly pleased overall. I don't feel so constrained by the constant fight to win over the well-known high contrast battle in using X ray film.

[Jim Noel]

The x-ray films are orthochromatic, some say just close to that. In other words reds do not record, and it is most sensitive to blue. In early morning, near sunset, or on cloudy days additional exposure is required for good negatives. Although some claim to have them, there are NO charts which can be depended upon for accuracy in these conditions. Experience with particular film, developer and methods is required.
Until you are more familiar with the film you need to photograph with it between 2 hours after sunrise until 2 hours prior to sunset. These times are approximate only. After some experience during the middle of the day and with your developer and particular method of development you will be able to nail down this part of the process. Then you can begin to experiment with increased exposure during low light parts pf the day.
Only you can determine this for you. What I do and what others do may be a guide, but that's all, Experimentation is the answer.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I thought I'd report back with preliminary results from today, based on just 2 sheets of film. This is not conclusive, obviously. I was an on-and-off stormy day. Nice puffy clouds and blue sky alternating to storm overcast and rain, back and forth all day. I wanted some blue sky and puffy summer clouds, so I had to jump in from minute to minute. This is Fuji HRT, 8 years old, with a Hoya K2 yellow filter permanently fastened to the rear element of my Bausch and Lomb 12 inch lens in a Betax #4 shutter. First sheet exposed at ASA 25 and developed 5 minutes, 75 degrees in Rodinal 3ml to 10 ounce water. Results: printable, but not perfect. The second ASA 12 same developer and dilution 4 minutes, 75F. On the second, the film showed more printable sky, but a bit lacking in the shadows. More tests are needed. At this time, I believe ASA 12 and 4 1/2 minutes 75F looks like a good place. I was particularly pleased overall. I don't feel so constrained by the constant fight to win over the well-known high contrast battle in using X ray film.


If you want more separation between blue sky and clouds on green sensitive xray like HRT (new stuff is HRU), use a stronger yellow filter. I've used a Wratten #12 (minus blue), a #15, and a green #58. You'll never get the separation like you can get with pan films, but looks pretty good. The green latitude xray films are indeed orthochromatic.

[HT Finley]

It's been a few years since I was last pursuing this interest. Are you telling me that Fuji HRT is discontinued and replaced by HRU? What is the difference? I can go on the Fuji site and see both. I notice they specifically describe HRT as "high contrast", while no such verbage is used on HRU. Is there a difference in film speed, contrast, or anything else I should know? Thank you.

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's been a few years since I was last pursuing this interest. Are you telling me that Fuji HRT is discontinued and replaced by HRU? What is the difference? I can go on the Fuji site and see both. I notice they specifically describe HRT as "high contrast", while no such verbage is used on HRU. Is there a difference in film speed, contrast, or anything else I should know? Thank you.

HRU is the newer version of HRT. No clue if HRT has been discontinued, but why would Fujifilm make both, unless there is something very different between them, and I cannot see any? I buy my xray film from cxsonline. They only list HRU.

[Eugen Mezei]

An interesting document: https://www.slideshare.net/PARTHPMT/radiologyxray-film-screens
Especially pages 24-26, where it explains the difference between T-Mat and Ektavision radiographic films. The first one lets light trough to hit the backside emulsion, where the second one has a separator built in, so that the two emulsions get light only from their side.
This should mean that in a camera the back emulsion of Ektavision would not be exposed (at least in theory, I guess some light will still hit).

The rest of the document is also interesting as it explains the different speeds of radiographic film.

[HT Finley]

Well it's been 9 days since I put in my surveyor's tripod with Engineer Supply, apparently of Virginia, and haven't seen or heard hide nor hair of it. I think they threw me on some kind of back order list and didn't tell me they were going to do that. All they said on their site was that orders generally take 3 or 4 days processing time before they ship. It's been 9, and nothing. Good thing I paid Paypal, because they're going to remember this transaction. I'll raise h-e-double toothpicks and put a prop under it.

[Tin Can]

One of the reasons I use eBay and Amazon so much

They both want fast delivery and often tell me exactly how long

[HT Finley]

With the help of my Ender 3 and a Tombstone pizza box, my Premier 13" paper cutter, plus a little ingenuity, I just loaded 3 4x5 film holders with cut-down 8x10 Fuji HRT so I can get out there tomorrow and start taking some test shots on my Horseman 8x10 with 4x5 back. The previously mentioned items were used to make 2 jigs. One for the 5x8 cut, and another jig for the 4x5 cut. The film fit the film holders perfectly after cutting. You know what would be nice to have now? A basic exposure chart for HRT. I realize the accuracy would be less than perfect, but it would probably be handy for some ballpark exposure settings. I'm using Rodinal 1:100. So far, 5 minutes at 72 degrees is looking pretty good. I know there's guys and YL's out there that have put together a little chart. Sure would like to see one. Regards. KN4SMF

[the4x5project]

Here a still life scene I shot on Kodak Min-R a few day ago.
IE 50 Dev in HC-110 1+63 for 5:50 min 20 degrees C.
Scanned by hand with RICOH GR III; slight adjustment in PP.

230447

[Tin Can]

Warning
facebook
link


here a still life scene i shot on kodak min-r a few day ago.
Ie 50 dev in hc-110 1+63 for 5:50 min 20 degrees c.
Scanned by hand with ricoh gr iii; slight adjustment in pp.

life as we know it (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=139961295400057&set=pob.100081585605792)

[the4x5project]

Warning
facebook
link

Next time, please tell me if there is something wrong with my posts.
Thanks.

[Tin Can]

Not really my job

Some of us do not like being tricked onto FB, etc

You image is fine




Next time, please tell me if there is something wrong with my posts.
Thanks.

[Eugen Mezei]

Not really my job


Exactly. Nobody asked you to act as forumpolice. Even more so, that it was nothing wrong with that link. Dont know where you see a trick. So it was no need either.

[Bill Poole]

I don't know about other browsers, but if you are in Safari you can go to VIEW| STATUS BAR to turn on the status bar on the bottom of the screen. Then, when you mouse over a link, the URL appears in the status bar, allowing you to avoid domains you find personally offending.

[Roberto Nania]

Hello,

I use Agfa CP-GU. I shot some sheets so far in order to find a good EI/developer combo. At the moment I'm around iso 12, developed in HC110 1+63 for about 4.5' at 22°C, continues agitation with Cibachrome drum. The density is now quite good but the contrast still too high. Any suggestion to get a softer contrast?

Thank you

[chris73]

Roberto i tried this Agfa at Iso25 + caffenol C at 22C /agitation every minute for about 8-10min.
That gave me good density and mid to low contrast.

[the4x5project]

Hello,

Any suggestion to get a softer contrast?

Thank you

If you want to lower the contrast via developing you have the following options:

Drop the temperature to 20 degrees Celsius (or lower).
Less agitation.
Try a higher dilution f.i. 1+79 or 1+100.

I have no experience with the Agfa film but made good ones with Fuji and Kodak and HC-110 1+63 with this.
Usually I am working with ISO 25 to 50. If I recall correctly there is quite a drop in contrast between ISO 50 to ISO 25 so ISO 12 should give you quite a soft one.

Hope this helps.

[Roberto Nania]

Thank you. I found a good way of avoiding scratches by using the cibachrome rotary drum. The point is, agitation is continuous. I'd try to increase the dilution to 1+79 and eventually to lower the temperature to 20°C. I'll post some pictures then.

[the4x5project]

Sure, Roberto. I guess you can achieve a lot via the temperature. I work with 20 C all the time and use your times for ISO 12 too (HC-110 1+63, 20C, 4:30 min).

[gdi]

What ISO would you rate this X-ray film at - as a starting point? I can’t find my notes from when I was messing with this previously. It is a single sided emulsion - I believe it is for mammography.

And any advice on development times would be great too!

231448

[Jim Noel]

What ISO would you rate this X-ray film at - as a starting point? I can’t find my notes from when I was messing with this previously. It is a single sided emulsion - I beloved fit mammography.

And any advice on development times would be great too!

231448

I rate this from 25-100 depending on the light. More red, lower EI. This should also depend on your developer and procedure.

[gdi]

I rate this from 25-100 depending on the light. More red, lower EI. This should also depend on your developer and procedure.

Thanks Jim - I have a few sheets drying now. First two I shot at 50 and developed for 5minutes in HC110 (b) and 2 shot at 80 and developed for 4.5minutes. I reduced dev time for the second ones because the first two looked very dense.

We’ll see in the morning how they look dry.

[gdi]

Thanks Jim - I have a few sheets drying now. First two I shot at 50 and developed for 5minutes in HC110 (b) and 2 shot at 80 and developed for 4.5minutes. I reduced dev time for the second ones because the first two looked very dense.

We’ll see in the morning how they look dry.



Here is the best one - all quite dense. This one was ISO 80, HC110 (B) 4.5 minutes...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52401985318_9285aaeeea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nQzSzu)X-Ray-Film (https://flic.kr/p/2nQzSzu) by gdi2003 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69104028@N00/), on Flickr

[gdi]

Anyone know where I can still find single sided X-ray film? It looks like the Carestream eb/ra I’ve been using is no longer available. I wonder if this would be a possibility if I can find it in stock?
https://issi-na.com/product/fuji-um-ma-mammography-film/

[Tin Can]

Yes


Anyone know where I can still find single sided X-ray film? It looks like the Carestream eb/ra I’ve been using is no longer available. I wonder if this would be a possibility if I can find it in stock?
https://issi-na.com/product/fuji-um-ma-mammography-film/

[Edison]

231709

I’m only at page 40 in the thread, but thought I’d say hi. I just got some Fuji green blue yesterday and I’m figuring it out. This one is with a yellow filter.

[Tin Can]

Maybe read it backwards as we learned more over time
Like your website!


231709

I’m only at page 40 in the thread, but thought I’d say hi. I just got some Fuji green blue yesterday and I’m figuring it out. This one is with a yellow filter.

[gdi]

Yes

I guess I should have added “and would be willing to share your source”. ;)

[Edison]

Maybe read it backwards as we learned more over time
Like your website!

Thanks!

[the4x5project]

I guess I should have added “and would be willing to share your source”. ;)

You can use any mammograhy film, like Fuji and Agfa. I think these are the only ones still being produced.
I have a source in Germany, if it is of any help: https://roentgenexpress.de

[gdi]

You can use any mammograhy film, like Fuji and Agfa. I think these are the only ones still being produced.
I have a source in Germany, if it is of any help: https://roentgenexpress.de

Thank you very much ! I’ll check the German source but keep looking for a US source.

[koraks]

Thank you very much ! I’ll check the German source but keep looking for a US source.

Back when I wanted some Carestream mammo film I got it from Z&Z Medical. The Carestream stuff is gone, but I see they still stock Fuji and Agfa mammography film. Looks like the Fuji stuff is also sold in single boxes.

[Tin Can]

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

Do not buy Dry

and buy it now

I have been warning on this thread for several years USA is going full DIGI with Medical DRY X-Ray, useless for us

I suggest NOW buying on eBay

Stock up as I have

[koraks]

Looks like this is the only single-sided mammo film Z&Z currently retails: https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-practices/mammography/fuji-um-ma-mammography-x-ray-film.html
Should work for photography if you're into the xray look.

[Tin Can]

OUT OF STOCK and metric

Yes, some love the stuff

obviously you do not


Looks like this is the only single-sided mammo film Z&Z currently retails: https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-practices/mammography/fuji-um-ma-mammography-x-ray-film.html
Should work for photography if you're into the xray look.

[Tin Can]

Seems eBay has 6X12"

I am sure it will sell out

I am NOT buying

no need

[koraks]

OUT OF STOCK and metric

Yes, some love the stuff

obviously you do not

My apologies, you're right.

And no, I don't love it. Yes, I've burned through several boxes of the stuff, most of it 8x10 cut down to 4x5 for various exposure and development tests, so I'm not just talking out of my @$$ either. My film doesn't have to be premium; Fomapan is plenty good enough for what I do on sheet film. I keep around a box of 8x10 carestream because I might want to use it for some graphic arts application some day. No way I'm wasting any more time loading it into actual film holders!

YMMV of course and everyone's entitled to their learning experience. I consumed mine, paid my dues and moved on.

[Tin Can]

Goals vary

Mine ARE different

I play on




My apologies, you're right.

And no, I don't love it. Yes, I've burned through several boxes of the stuff, most of it 8x10 cut down to 4x5 for various exposure and development tests, so I'm not just talking out of my @$$ either. My film doesn't have to be premium; Fomapan is plenty good enough for what I do on sheet film. I keep around a box of 8x10 carestream because I might want to use it for some graphic arts application some day. No way I'm wasting any more time loading it into actual film holders!

YMMV of course and everyone's entitled to their learning experience. I consumed mine, paid my dues and moved on.

[gdi]

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

Do not buy Dry

and buy it now

I have been warning on this thread for several years USA is going full DIGI with Medical DRY X-Ray, useless for us

I suggest NOW buying on eBay

Stock up as I have


Thanks - I should have stocked up a few years ago myself. I’ll check what is available on ebay.

[Andrew O'Neill]

231709

I’m only at page 40 in the thread, but thought I’d say hi. I just got some Fuji green blue yesterday and I’m figuring it out. This one is with a yellow filter.

Are you using trays to process? If so, flat-bottomed are the best. I use them for double-sided green lat xray. No scratches.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Here's a box prolly expired I have 500 sheets, which seem to age okay. About 30 cents per sheet 100 sheets. I'm using D23 and Microdol-X. I have a bunch of 18x24cm holders which work well

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255720588844?hash=item3b8a22862c:g:Yh8AAOSwCURjBC--&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoFL8U6JygMRb742BE0qw3Y3OTTBJuuvqjyRGgHpj7M8P6KVlyrOZp3R1%2BOG21rhB0exACPs%2BTef1bdXD3vvIOejmxjnhNK3rBz0oxcUH8poG6rQv140idf5osBD3olRfRmuBZeToTjreT4%2FKewxU3CYkDVJUHIiv6B8rGEzRZpYWjE1SXvqTK1hmQdpf5TRpVYQBWeBvd4R6PwTkPV43F%2FU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aO0s75YA

[Tin Can]

Don't forget to forget the RULES

Here is fun X-Ray, studio mirror selfie scanned in color V700I was shocked happy

The blue tint must have added something

Serendipity is fine with me

Even very thin X-Ray scans great

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52422922811_06ea596868_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/s0xzt34087)X-Ray Selfie V700 Scaneed in COLOR bare PS (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/s0xzt34087) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[koraks]

Nice shot. But not. Art. Hah!
No really, it's a nice one.

[Tin Can]

Thank you

Peace on Earth...

As I am my only human, I need to try again

Differently

soon

I now have 3 big mirrors

One huge tall mirror and heavy

all the way from China for $100

that shit is over



Nice shot. But not. Art. Hah!
No really, it's a nice one.

[Edison]

Are you using trays to process? If so, flat-bottomed are the best. I use them for double-sided green lat xray. No scratches.

Yes, this shot was tray developed in the kind that has grooves at the bottom. I think I'm a bit rough with the cutdown process. I don't have any flat bottomed trays but I can stand develop in a yankee tank (I did it yesterday, and I don't *think* there were any black scratches...) Thanks!

[Brian Bullen]

What I’ve done in the past is use a full size sheet of wasted film, ie bad exposure, blurry shot or even just a fixed 8x10 blank on the bottom of a grooved tray. This keeps the cut down film from touching the bottom and causing scratches. Works great and it only costs a sheet of film.

[Edison]

Don't forget to forget the RULES



Love it.

[Edison]

I'm still only about 80 pages in. But quick question - how much developer is needed per sheet? Is it just as much as pan film ie 25ml of D76 per 4x5? Or is it twice as much due to the doublesidedness? Or is each side 1/2 as effective as I've been reading some are removing the back, but losing density?

I'm currently messing around with stand development in a Yankee tank because I'm showing my 4 year old how it all works and I'd rather not splash in trays nor do I think she has the attention span for that. But if its 50ml/sheet, that's only 4 sheets I can develop at once for 1:7. I'm hoping it's less.

Forgive me if this in the thread already, I tried a search but nothing came up with my keywords. Thanks!

Alan

[maltfalc]

I'm still only about 80 pages in. But quick question - how much developer is needed per sheet? Is it just as much as pan film ie 25ml of D76 per 4x5? Or is it twice as much due to the doublesidedness? Or is each side 1/2 as effective as I've been reading some are removing the back, but losing density?

I'm currently messing around with stand development in a Yankee tank because I'm showing my 4 year old how it all works and I'd rather not splash in trays nor do I think she has the attention span for that. But if its 50ml/sheet, that's only 4 sheets I can develop at once for 1:7. I'm hoping it's less.

Forgive me if this in the thread already, I tried a search but nothing came up with my keywords. Thanks!

Alan

should take the same amount of developer to get the same amount of silver at the end. maybe more fixer.

[Edison]

should take the same amount of developer to get the same amount of silver at the end. maybe more fixer.

Thank you very much.

[Tin Can]

I use 1/100 Rodinol 10 ml per 8X10

I use one gallon gas burst or trays

It needs as little as 7 min but is fully exhausted at 20 min

Try 25 ASA but it depends on color of light

I use very dim RED LED SAFE LIGHT bounced off ceiling

I also cut it to any size

[Tin Can]

addendum

I recently read somewhere that double sided has MORE silver than normal film

BUY NOW

the end is near

[Andrew O'Neill]

Because it's double-side ;)

[Brian Bullen]

I’m rating Kodak S/Ra at 125 developed in pyrocat m with sodium carbonate. I have tried several brands in the past (Kodak, Agfa, Konica)of green sensitive x-ray I feel like they are all pretty much the same. Here are a couple recent ones where I tried stand development but definitely created some uneven areas.

231792231793

[Andrew O'Neill]

I’m rating Kodak S/Ra at 125 developed in pyrocat m with sodium carbonate. I have tried several brands in the past (Kodak, Agfa, Konica)of green sensitive x-ray I feel like they are all pretty much the same. Here are a couple recent ones where I tried stand development but definitely created some uneven areas.

231792231793

Was the film left to stand in a vertical position?

[Michael R]

What you guys need for this misguided scheme is a proper low contrast developer. Trying to mangle x-ray film into half-barely acceptable tone reproduction using general purpose developers, nonsense Cookbook concoctions, stand development etc. is not the way.


I’m rating Kodak S/Ra at 125 developed in pyrocat m with sodium carbonate. I have tried several brands in the past (Kodak, Agfa, Konica)of green sensitive x-ray I feel like they are all pretty much the same. Here are a couple recent ones where I tried stand development but definitely created some uneven areas.

231792231793

[Corran]

What you guys need for this misguided scheme is a proper low contrast developer.

Rodinal 1:100...

Works just as well today as it did 6 years ago:

231812

[Michael R]

Fair enough. Apologies for my strident post. I just really, really don’t understand why anyone would use large format x-ray film, especially double-sided x-ray film (unless of course they are using it specifically for its inherent characteristics/properties, in which case I have no argument against it).


Rodinal 1:100...

Works just as well today as it did 6 years ago:

231812

[Corran]

Prices have changed, of course, but back when I bought a ton of 8x10 x-ray film (Fuji HR-T, which I used on the shot above) I paid about 20 cents per sheet. I also last year bought 14x17 x-ray film for $1 per sheet. I think that's a pretty compelling reason. It's also great for learning/practicing.

My best results were obtained by stripping the rear emulsion using bleach. Ultimately, that was a LOT of trouble, and I stopped doing it but it did work well for pictorial use. I will do some more x-ray film in the future, such as that 14x17 film.

I also did like the glowy look of the film sometimes.

[Brian Bullen]

Was the film left to stand in a vertical position?

Hi Andrew,
I have Kodak 8x10 hangers in a 1 gal stainless steel tank. So orientation when developing was horizontal. Just experimenting really, my mix of of pyrocat was 25ml Sol A 125 ml Sol B and 3850ml of water at 68f. Left in the tank for 15 min with agitation was at the beginning middle and that’s it.

[Brian Bullen]

Fair enough. Apologies for my strident post. I just really, really don’t understand why anyone would use large format x-ray film, especially double-sided x-ray film (unless of course they are using it specifically for its inherent characteristics/properties, in which case I have no argument against it).

Some of us are interested in experimenting, some can’t afford the cost of a box of ilford 8x10 or the like and shoot as much as we like. 500 sheets of X-ray is about the same as 1 box of 25 sheets of ilford fp4. Not to mention the high contrast of x-ray works beautifully with alternative processes and also has a different look than modern film. Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.

[koraks]

Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.

The reasons you mentioned are certainly valid. And given the time and effort I put into trying to make x-ray film work for me, rest assured that I know from first-hand experience how they work and what the appeal of the material is - I recognize everything you said (well, almost)!

But...I see many people who are experimenting with this kind of film in the apparent expectation that it's a substitute for regular photographic film. But it really isn't. In its tonal reproduction, it is fundamentally *impossible* to make x-ray film do the same thing as even a low-cost, archaic-technology film like Fomapan 100. Anyone on that path may find themselves spending a lot of time, and ultimately also quite a bit of money, on something that just will never do what they hope it will do.

And yes, they may end up with something they like nonetheless and be content with that. On the other hand, I'm sure that several people who posted in this thread and even more who've read (parts of) it ultimately turned away from x-ray film in mild disappointment and either moved on to regular film, or just abandoned the format they intended to shoot on altogether.

So while I respect and agree with your view, I do feel that whenever someone who is new to the trade expresses interest in x-ray film, someone should give them a fair warning of what they should NOT expect from it. Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm plenty stubborn enough to have tried it anyway (I would!), I sure would have appreciated it if the many blogs and posts that waxed lyrical about this nearly-free alternative to real film would have been a bit more nuanced.

[Tin Can]

NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing

I shoot all kinds of film

I really like ancient film as I love to experiment

My oldest glass plates give me great joy, I think the plates are 125 years old and still work!

Many here are NOT DAMN EXPERTS and don't give a shit what the self proclaimed experts say

WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50980923242_3c95795724_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/w7Ajo8oiq6)Glass Plate Box (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/w7Ajo8oiq6) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50980922867_8e1a5ba4a8_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Vj20k22387)PS 1884 Standard Dry Plate Company 5X7 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Vj20k22387) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[koraks]

NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing

[...]
WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf

Nobody said anyone promised anything.

And so what who considers whom esteemed and whether people, esteemed or otherwise, post images?

Why the aggravation? I just expressed my opinion and experience. Apparently you don't like it; that says something about you, not about what I said.

[Tin Can]

no problem

some of us like X-Ray

you don't

[Michael R]

Understood. Enjoyment is ultimately what this is about and that is a valid enough reason to try/use x-ray film. It also makes sense if the specific characteristics of x-ray films are what one is after.

On the other hand, if the motivation is simply to circumvent the cost of large format film some criticism is healthy. It is a misguided pursuit. If the cost of large format film is prohibitive the photographer would be far better off using medium format film (whether on a large or medium format camera) than with x-ray sheet film. The other point is that if one is nevertheless determined to experiment with x-ray film in an attempt to save money, despite insurmountable differences in spectral sensitization etc., at the very least more appropriate processing should be considered. Things like dilute general purpose developers, reduced agitation/stand etc. just aren’t going to do much of anything to help.


Some of us are interested in experimenting, some can’t afford the cost of a box of ilford 8x10 or the like and shoot as much as we like. 500 sheets of X-ray is about the same as 1 box of 25 sheets of ilford fp4. Not to mention the high contrast of x-ray works beautifully with alternative processes and also has a different look than modern film. Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.

[Tin Can]

Perhaps experts worry X-Ray will dilute real film usage

Our oldest member prefers Orthochromatic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia#:~:text=Orthochromatic%20photography%20refers%20to%20a,lighter%2C%20and%20red%20ones%20darker.), for several reasons

He has been using it since the 1930's

[Andrew O'Neill]

No, it's not a sub for regular films...but neither is Ilford Ortho, or those Lane glass plates. They stand on their own for what they are and what they can do. I simply use xray film for it's orthochromatic characteristics. It's lovely that I can get it in 14x17...for cheap! It makes great alt prints. I prefer double-sided green. Also, my senior photo students use it in their big box pinhole cameras! :D

[Brian Bullen]

Koraks and Michael R, it’s true that x-ray film is not a substitute for panchromatic film. We might be coming at this from different perspectives, I have been shooting with film since the 80’s and although that’s not as long as others here it’s a fair amount of time. Everything from 11x14 on down so I knew what I was getting into with x-ray. People who are newer to large format or film photography in general might not understand the differences, it does seem that most forums and blogs clearly state that it’s orthochromatic, scratches easily, double sided and more contrasty. I chose X-ray in 8x10 and larger for several reasons, I love the look but I love the price even more. I can afford regular film and shoot that as well, especially in smaller formats. If someone can not afford a box of 25sheets of ilford or tmax but would like to try large format I would totally recommend $40 for 100 sheets of film, I would also suggest they do their research. As far as standard developers diluted or otherwise is perfectly fine, any developer chosen can work and work well, that’s why people should learn and experiment to find what works best for them. I’ve used coffee, d-76, pyrocat and others all with great results and I’m happy I did.
Is it the right choice for everyone, no way! Is it ok to try new things, learn and grow, hell yes. Let everyone decide their own path. Discouragement is not a productive way forward.