Indian camera makers?

[Scott --]

Hi, all -

I'm looking at buying an Indian-made camera by Vageeswari Camera Works. Google turns up nothing on this maker, and I'm having trouble finding info on any makers from India at all.

Anyone have any info on the camera makers there, oh, a hundred years ago or so?

Scott

[David A. Goldfarb]

There was an inexpensive Deardorff-style camera called the Rajah made in India for some time.

[Mark Sampson]

I remember the Rajah from about 1982- they were made of teak. But "inexpensive" meant "rickety". I bought a Tachihara instead. Let's hope the Vageeswari products are better value.... If you find anything out, post it here, as I'm sure other people will be interested.

[Rafael Garcia]

Hi, all -

I'm looking at buying an Indian-made camera by Vageeswari Camera Works. Google turns up nothing on this maker, and I'm having trouble finding info on any makers from India at all.

Anyone have any info on the camera makers there, oh, a hundred years ago or so?

Scott

Scott:

I bought an old Japanese English-style half plate some time ago. It had a nameplate in Japanese, which translated to Asanuma Shokai King 1. I found that Asanuma Shokai is an old Japanese distributor. My camera was made by some small manufacturer and sold to Asanuma to sell under their brand. Like you, I found nothing specific about my camera, other than knowing the distributor's name.

Indian cameras of the same period would have followed the English design, and would be very similar to mine in origin and design. I find the camera very light and solid, well thought-out. It lacks the many sophisticated geared movements of monorail designs and expensive modern wood field cameras, but I use it well and it gives me good service.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h285/ragc01/DSC_0080.jpg

[Scott --]

Rafael, I hope this camera turns out as nice as yours. Fingers crossed!
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/bliorg/2vaags6x12-1.jpg

[audioexcels]

I've used the Tachihara, now the Nagaoka, and many other monorail based cameras. What I like most about these cameras built from India is they are more rigid than the Charten based one...not as light, but so close it doesn't matter. Controls are very solid..also solid on the Tach and Nag, but to me, they seem simpler for some reason. Setup, fold down, etc. etc..it all seems much more simple...but at the same time, you got some very good movement potential. I think that Deardorff thing that was sold as a 5X7? was a later concept that was very bad...as it may seem, the newer should be the better, though I think these older India cameras are fantastic and once polished up, can look as good as a $1500-$4000 camera, and have the flexibility to always do some mods here and there;)....

[Michael Carter]

Hi,

I have collected some Indian made large format cameras. The label on one reads Vageeswari Camera Works.

The two I am interested in using are in 8x15 inch plate format. Plate holders are included. The larger of the two has a triple extension base.
It is 29 1/2 x 11 1/4 inches stretched all the way out and compressed all the way in, ground glass inside to base of lens board.

Another has a shorter base that extends 22 inches long and 4 1/2 short, inside of glass to the base of the lens board.

The lens boards are both 6 1/4 x 6 3/4 with a 4 1/2 inch hole that has 6 screw holes around it. There is no evidence of anything ever being behind them. I'd like something to fit those screw holes.

What can I use for lens/shutters? Do you have something for sale that would work? I like the idea of telephoto city landscapes of lots of buildings seen from hills and bridges.

Thanks,

Michael A Carter

[Archphoto]

That lensboard with 6 holes around the opening for the lens: are they in a circle ?
In that way the former owner had a lens in it without a shutter, just a srew-mount for the lens.

Usable lenses: for 8x15...... I gues you would be looking in the region of 480mm or there abouts.
A 300mm covers 8x10 with some movement, maybe a 360mm would fit tour camera, not shure though.

If you get a lens with shutter (I would) you will need to plug-up those holes and depending on the shutter and the opening required for it, make a new lens board with the propper hole.

Good luck !
Peter

[dwross]

I have a 6"x15" Vageeswari. I use a 450mm Nikkor-M lens on it for full coverage.

I love my Vag. I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with yours.
d

[Paul Ewins]

Hi Michael, I've got a 6.5 x 15 and an 8.5 x 15. Although they are quite obviously exactly the same design, just with different sized ground glass attached, the lensboards are slightly different sizes. Both were just slightly larger than the Cambo boards I use with my 8x10 cameras so I modified the 8.5 x 15 to take Cambo boards. I wouldn't normally hack about an old camera but I bought them to use, not display, so decided that was the best way..

I would guess that 4.5 inch hole means that your camera had a huge brass lens attached at one point which may be expensive to replace. There were few standards back then, so finding another lens that will fit the holes that you have in the lensboard may be very difficult.

If you look at modern lenses then anything that covers 11 x 14 will be fine.

FWIW, although there is a lot of talk about "hundred year old cameras" I suspect that most Vageeswari cameras are a lot newer than that and the company stuck to one basic design all the way through, much like the Hindustan car was built decades after the original Morris design had disappeared.

[Vaughn]

I had a Raja from 1980. I bought in new in San Diego..$525 and it came with a 210/6.3 Computar. The lens was much better than the camera! What a sharp lens! The camera was a direct copy of a Deardorf Special. The wood structure of the camera was well made and sturdy -- its downfall was the poor metal /wood work of the back. I eventually replaced the 4x5 back with a Deardorf 5x7 back, and I felt I had a fine 5x7 camera.

Perhaps if I had had a chance to use a real Deardorf, I might have felt the camera was "rickety"...but ignorance is bliss...LOL! The camera was eventually stolen, but I still have the original rotating 4x5 back.

Vaughn

[Michael Carter]

OK, I sprung for two huge old brass lenses, one has a flange the other may fit a flange I have.
This is getting interesting.

[Michael Finder]

Hi,

I recall new/old stock of Vageeswari cameras from time to time on ebay in France and the UK. I suspect they were not that old but fantastic equipment. Most sold with wood plate holders.

I have an 8x10 Vageeswari Camera Works wood field camera with an 8x10 wooden plate holder. The lenses I have are Schneider Symmar 240mm f5.6 in Copal 3; 10inch Ensign Symmetrical f8-f64 barrel lens, Cooke APO 300mm f9 - f90 process lens. All lenses are mounted on home made lens boards. It has the original wood tripod.

The camera came to me in terrific used cosmetic condition apart from the bellows (light leaks) which I have repaired. The camera folds completely flat. Movements are somewhat limited but my main purpose is portraits so no big deal for me. The major down side is the bellows draw is only 17 inches. Getting close head shots with the 240 and 300 is a real battle.

The Vageeswari construction looks very similar to Asunama King from photos I have seen. Quite beautiful cameras. Cheers Michael.

http://www.goldcoastphotography.com.au/images/adminimages/gallery/161l_3vcw10.jpg
http://www.goldcoastphotography.com.au/images/adminimages/gallery/162l_4vcw10.jpg

[Ernest Purdum]

I like the nice large lensboards.

[r_a_feldman]

The hardware items on the Indian cameras pictured in this thread look a lot like that on Japanese field cameras of pre-WWII vintage. Someone once suggested that there might have been one or a few manufacturers of the metal hardware, who sold to many small woodworking shops that produced the cameras. Does anyone know if this was the case? Or were they all just working off a few English prototypes and fabricating similar-looking hardware for that reason?

[Ernest Purdum]

It doesn't really help towards answering your question, but in the early days of the twentieth century in both England and the United States, you could buy camera metal items either individually, or as sets for complete cameras. These were advertised for amateur woodworkers, but I'm sure the makers would have been pleased to supply a camera maker.

I have never taken the trouble to do a side-by-side comparison, but my impression is that such items are similar but not identical from one manufacturer to another.

[Hollis]

What's a good price for an 8x15 Indian teak camera?

[Michael Carter]

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/collectible-camera-n-lens__W0QQ_armrsZ1
shipping costs
tripod is extra but you can always get one
cameras are around $440
shipping is fast
packing is perfect, no breakage with 5 delivered.
fine communication.
I'm waiting for bigger ones.

Michael

[Hollis]

Thanks, I had actually bought one from him a long time ago and was thinking of selling it since I don't shoot it at all.

H.

[Michael Carter]

What kind of lenses does it have?

[buzzardkid]

Hi all, happy to have found this thread.

Two days back I bought a Vageeswari 5x7, this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/3vcw5x7-4.jpg

It's my first true LF camera. I've been doing 6x9 for some time and wanted to move up. Some day, I wanna be as good as Uncle Earl.:D

It's a fully hardwood camera, all metal parts are nickel plated, knobs are aluminium, original and all accounted for.

I plan to mount a Symmar 210/5.6 to the Copal #1 mount.

I'm looking for any film holders that will fit this camera, here's what they look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/9vcw5x7.jpg

Anybody that can help me out?

Cheers,
Johan

[Brian Stein]

Degree of bad news for you here: this is a plate camera. Options are
1. convert camera back to use regular film holders
2. use the plate holder you have into which you need to put in a sheath or similar to bring the plane of focus on the ground glass into the same relationship as the film. (film being way thinner than a glass plate so sitting too far back in the holder for the plane of focus on the GG to be correct for the film)

I have one of these that I am planning to do #1 to to use as a lightweight 5x7. You will also have to do something to the undercarriage if you dont have one of the vintage tripods that slots into the nice nickel fittings. Also on my todo list.

[Andrew Plume]

Hi, all -

I'm looking at buying an Indian-made camera by Vageeswari Camera Works. Google turns up nothing on this maker, and I'm having trouble finding info on any makers from India at all.

Anyone have any info on the camera makers there, oh, a hundred years ago or so?

Scott


Hi Scott (and those who have since joind in on this post)

fwiw (and as you may now know), there's an ebay seller based in Louth Lincolnshire, here in the UK who appears to have a supply of these Vageeswari cameras, imo his posts are interesting as he can also supply accessories, such as replacement parts for the old style plate/film book holders

hope that this helps


andrew

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Scott (and those who have since joind in on this post)

fwiw (and as you may now know), there's an ebay seller based in Louth Lincolnshire, here in the UK who appears to have a supply of these Vageeswari cameras, imo his posts are interesting as he can also supply accessories, such as replacement parts for the old style plate/film book holders

hope that this helps


andrew


fyi, the guy in the UK that I mentioned sells under the name of 'photolud'

hopefully I'm not in breach of any forum rule in mentioning this - he doesn't have any cameras for sale at this time, so I'm not linking this post up to that sort of thing and fwiw, have no personal knowledge nor any relationship of him/with him

hope that this also helps


andrew

[Andrew Plume]

Hi all, happy to have found this thread.

Two days back I bought a Vageeswari 5x7, this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/3vcw5x7-4.jpg

It's my first true LF camera. I've been doing 6x9 for some time and wanted to move up. Some day, I wanna be as good as Uncle Earl.:D

It's a fully hardwood camera, all metal parts are nickel plated, knobs are aluminium, original and all accounted for.

I plan to mount a Symmar 210/5.6 to the Copal #1 mount.

I'm looking for any film holders that will fit this camera, here's what they look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/9vcw5x7.jpg

Anybody that can help me out?

Cheers,
Johan


hello Johan, nice camera

the guy that I've just mentioned may also be able to help you out - what I've found with these book film holders (and I'm very happy to be corrected) is that a same sized holder rarely fits/slots into the back of the camera that one already owns - it can be a pretty frustrating business - if you're lucky, modern 5x7 filmholders may be able to slide in and loading these is far easier than playing around with the old style holders

good luck


andrew

[buzzardkid]

Thanks Andrew and Brian for your responses.

I dropped mr. photolud a line and truly hope he gets back to me on the issue.

Dumb-@55 question: would it not suffice to leave a sheet of glass in the holder semi-attached permanently, load the film in front of it and drop the GG further in for the same depth as the negative thickness? This would possibly only require some thin clips or rails to grab both glass and sheet film, if not yet present.

Regarding the tripod: the auction had a complementary tripod listed for only USD 75 and a bit extra on shipping. From the seller I got that the tripod will be new and made to fit.

[Brian Stein]

would it not suffice to leave a sheet of glass in the holder semi-attached permanently, load the film in front of it and drop the GG further in for the same depth as the negative thickness?.

Essentially anything that will mean than the point of focus on the GG matches the point of focus on the emulsion will work.

see this thread for some creative ideas http://www.apug.org/forums/forum192/33963-using-cut-film-whole-plate-glass-holder.html

[buzzardkid]

I got back to the auction shots and had another close look.

With a GG construction like this, it shouldn't be too hard to rig up some custom-made sheetfilm holders, I reckon:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/7vcw5x7.jpg

This is it from the side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/4vcw5x7-4.jpg

I plan to:

start out with a single layer of plywood and cut it to size to fit the grooves.
Thicken it up with more layers of plywood, possibly interlaced with thick black paper to reach accurate thickness
save a slot for a metal sheet to work as a dark slide
Save enough space in the last layer to position the sheet film
Use a glass plate as a pressure plate
Fit a back door with either hinges or metal tabs swinging into place


Does this sound like a viable plan? Am I missing something?

EDIT: If all else fails, I will stick to the honey :p

[Andrew Plume]

Thanks Andrew and Brian for your responses.

I dropped mr. photolud a line and truly hope he gets back to me on the issue.

Dumb-@55 question: would it not suffice to leave a sheet of glass in the holder semi-attached permanently, load the film in front of it and drop the GG further in for the same depth as the negative thickness? This would possibly only require some thin clips or rails to grab both glass and sheet film, if not yet present.

Regarding the tripod: the auction had a complementary tripod listed for only USD 75 and a bit extra on shipping. From the seller I got that the tripod will be new and made to fit.



thx Johan - glad to help, that looks to be a really decent quality replacement bellows too


andrew

[Ernest Purdum]

The old-style tripods consisting of three separate legs that snap into place on the base turntable are not only quite awkward to use but have resulted in many broken cameras and lenses. It is easy to kick one of the legs out from under.

A much better arrangement is a plate that fits into the turntable and allows a standard head to be mounted on top. Maybe photolud can supply one, but if not they are not a very difficult job for a wood or metal worker to make up.

[cdholden]

I've got a Vageeswari whole plate back (not a whole camera) with 2 bookform holders, just like buzzardkid shows. I got this with the intent of adapting it to fit on a 2D, but I later thought it would save space if I just modified an old 8x10 film holder to do the job.
Does anyone here need a whole plate back with 2 plate holders?
Chris

[Steven Tribe]

OK, I'm going back a bit in this thread - but I would expect this V*******i camera, in spite of its old design features, to have either film sheaves or a standard system for sheet film. They are post WWII after all. Finding suitable Kodak film sheaves for conversion to your format of choice is not that difficult. Although these mahogany brass book holders may vary slightly in outer dimension size, the way they are built is identical. I have altered a couple to fit the right camera in an evening.

[Ernest Purdum]

Since the whole back comes off easily, Adopting a modern style back from some other camera (they show up on eBay fairly often) would be a much simpler job for a woodworker than making up filmholders, which are actually fairly difficult to make.

[Don Dudenbostel]

I remember the Rajah from about 1982- they were made of teak. But "inexpensive" meant "rickety". I bought a Tachihara instead. Let's hope the Vageeswari products are better value.... If you find anything out, post it here, as I'm sure other people will be interested.

I purchased a Raja for one of my students to use. There's nothing rickety about them but they aren't as smooth or nicely finished as a Deardorff. I've personally used Deardorff's for nearly forty years and have owned a number of other folding cameras. My wife bought a very nice Shen Hao as a gift to me a few years ago and I can honestly say I would much rather have a Shen Hao than a Raja / Prinzdorff. I think the Shen-Hao, Tachihara and Ikeda are exceptional values and much more refined cameras.

A little side note, I purchased the Raja for roughly $350 which was an OK deal but nothing fantastic and advertised it on the forum for a little more with no takers. It was in very nice condition and I placed it on the auction site and got $800 (?????!)for it. OK camera but $350 is about the tops I would pay. I turned around and bought a Deardorff special from another professional who was retiring and I had known and worked with for forty five years. I paid a fair price for it at $750.

The moral to the story, if you have your heart set on a Deardorff style camera look for a Deardorff unless you can find a Raja for under $350 or better a Shen-Hao or similar at a good price.

[buzzardkid]

I've got a Vageeswari whole plate back (not a whole camera) with 2 bookform holders, just like buzzardkid shows. I got this with the intent of adapting it to fit on a 2D, but I later thought it would save space if I just modified an old 8x10 film holder to do the job.
Does anyone here need a whole plate back with 2 plate holders?
Chris

Sending PM, Chris!

[buzzardkid]

I'm getting more and more interested in the 'Kodak sheath approach'.

Anyone that can share info on the type of sheath, possibly a part number / order number, and supply a picture? What well-known cameras were these sheaths used on in the past?

Thank you all for participating in this thread, it enables me to have a decent knowledge to get started, once the camera arrives at my doorstep!

[Ernest Purdum]

Sheaths are easy for a sheetmetal shop to make if you can borrow a sample for use as a pattern.

After film, as opposed to plates, became popular, sheaths were used in any camera that took plateholders. They remained longest in use in Japan. There, if you bought a field camera in the 1970's, you were apt to get three "book-form double dark slide" plateholders and were expected to buy a box of sheaths for use with it. If you have any contacts in Japan, that might be the best place to find them, but your size might be a problem. Are you sure your holders are 5" X 7" and not the 1/2-plate size until recently more popular in Asia?

[buzzardkid]

Hi all!

I got my Vageeswari Plate camera today and am very excited about it.

But, the film size is throwing me off.

I measured inside edges of the book plate holder and they are 11.2 x 16.5 cms, or 4.4 x 6.4 inches. So, almost half plate but not quite.

Is this a well-known size at all? Or possibly some Japanese size?

Cheers,
Johan

[buzzardkid]

Right, I took another swing at measuring and apparently put the ruler along the wrong bit of the bookform holder, it is half plate after all.

Now, if I only could locate some more holders, I'd like to have five, possibly more...

Will get a shot of the correct one online soon in the WTB / WTT section.

[Steven Tribe]

1/2 plate book holders in delicious mahogany are very available on that auction site. Just at the moment, as well!

[buzzardkid]

1/2 plate book holders in delicious mahogany are very available on that auction site. Just at the moment, as well!

True, I just had a good look-over on them but the sizes I'm looking for seem off-standard.

The Vageeswari HP holders externally measure: 16.1 x 21.3 x 2.4 cms, and grooves are 4mm. So, in inches that's approx 6.3 x 8.4 x 0.9 inches, and 1/16th groove.

Do these numbers ring a bell with anyone? I'm kinda hoping the Vageeswari people copied their camera from another brand and stuck to sizes...:rolleyes:

[Steven Tribe]

Book holder plates are very easy to adapt as mahogany is easy to work. And brass fitments screw off easily - and on again! Just get a set of holders which is slightly larger than your ideal size if you get stuck!
The sizes you give are within 2mm of my own book holders for a German 13x18cm camera!

[heritagefutures]

12 x 16.5 is a Japanese kabine format
http://camerapedia.org/wiki/Kabine

[Fragomeni]

Can anyone tell me what an acceptable price for a Vageeswari 8.5x15 would be? Also, an 11x14? Thank you.

[Paul Ewins]

Can anyone tell me what an acceptable price for a Vageeswari 8.5x15 would be? Also, an 11x14? Thank you.

For the seller or the buyer?

I paid $130 for my 8.5 x15 and $76 for my 6.5x 15 and then paid another $75 each for one holder for each camera. That was an ebay auction in november 2008.

Given the completely non-standard nature of the cameras I think $400 with a holder is about tops for a 8.5x15 camera that needs no work. If you have the option to buy more holders that would be better still. The 11x14 might be a different case since you could theoretically adapt it to use standard size film (and with more work) in standard holders.

[Fragomeni]

You paid $130!? How the hell did you do that? There's a guy in the UK selling one for $800. Guess I'll have to pass on it.

[IanG]

Can't be 100% sure but I think those two cameras have been listed on ebay for quite a long time, perhaps under a different name the Ultra-Large-Format-Camera-Shop now closed.

I asked a seller of an unrelated item if he was open to offers, an item that's been listed for perhaps a year and rather overpriced and I had a reply that it only costs 4p ($0.07) a month to list it so Ebay is a very cheap shop front :D

Ian

[Fragomeni]

Hmm, well does anyone here have one they'd be interested in selling for a more reasonable and less greedy price?

[IanG]

Camera fairs are a good place to start looking, but these cameras aren't that common outside the Indian sub continent. I noticed the same seller has/had a 6"x15" Vageeswari listed about 6 weeks ago that went unsold at the time. That ties in with what I looked at a couple of years ago.

With no film holders the cameras are not very practical, I did consider buying one.

Ian

[Paul Ewins]

I actually bid on both at the same time, hoping to get one of them and ended up with both. They came directly from India which may have put some people off. The 6.5x15 has the same size bellows and back as the 8.5x15, kind of like a 4x10 format adapter on an 8x10 camera except that it is permanent. The lensboards are a slightly different size however. I think $800 is way too much for an antiquated design in a weird format, but maybe I'm just a cheapskate.

[Andrew Plume]

this, Ian is probably the 'work' of ebay seller 'photolud' who I've mentioned before on this forum and coincidentally he bought a 10x12" from me some weeks ago that only needed a new set of bellows to be up and running

'photolud' is probably not on the cheap side with some of 'his unusual formats' but reading between the lines, he does seem to carry out a very decent restoration job of the cameras that he sells

anyhow that's my few cents, fwiw, in case it may help anyone

regards

andrew

[IanG]

It is him Andrew.

Looking at the camera in question and his description of it's condition then perhaps it's not that far off being a reasonable price. He's not cheap but neither is he totally unrealistic.

He has sold a lot of other Vageeswari's, at least 4 since November, so he has a very good idea of their value and what he can sell them for, he does seem to specialise in this make. So I take back my earlier comment about the current cameras being listed before.

A problem with looking at UK listings from elsewhere is that often people don't realise how much higher cameras sell for in the UK compared to the US.

It's not unusual to see quite uninspiring Crown Graphics sell for over £300 ($480) in the UK, and it's the same with most field cameras.

Ian

[ambermai]

I also have the camera that Johan has pictured above.
Does anyone know how I can mount it to a tripod? I am desperate to get this thing set up but the giant hole for a tripod mount has me stumped.

[bill kehoe]

weird coincidence, what are the odds? anyone looking here may also be interested in the thread started a day or 2 ago titled: Expedition Camera Help Needed. there's a little info there that hasn't moved over to this one yet.

[Steven Tribe]

#54 "The Giant hole for a tripod mount has me stumped".

This is a semi standard mounting system from the days when the wooden tripod had three dismountable legs which fitted onto brass pegs on the cut out top plate of the wooden fitment which fitted into this hole.
This top plate is a common "orphan" item listed - you know where.
I have also seen these where the three pairs of "leg attachments" have already been removed from underneath and a female thread 1/4, 3/8" has been installed for a modern tripod.
The final base becomes much more rigid than usual - you can compare it to the final Deardorff design with a large aluminium disc in the base.

[ambermai]

Just a quick update: I found a photo somewhere online where someone had simply screwed piece of wood over the hole to cover it, and used a screw thread in the center to be able to mount it to a normal tripod. I've shied away from trying to get the dismountable legs as the general consensus seems to be that they're rickety.
Also, I bought a 5x7 Ansco holder and 3 5x7 Kodak holders and none of them fit. The plate holder that came with it is the only one that does and I just have to make some corners to convert it.

[Fourtoes]

Just make sure you dont use too long a screw, it will interfere with the mechanisms above....I learnt from my mistakes.

Yep its quite common to just attach a wooden panel and a standard tripod mount in the centre. Works just fine.

[fushsiaoutfield]

Just make sure you dont use too long a screw, it will interfere with the mechanisms above....Ihttp://godimage.co.cc/thumb/base/images/potter/34/h/eek.gif learnt from my mistakes.

Yep its quite common to just attach a wooden panel and a standard tripod mount in the centre. Works just fine.

thanks god you tell this information

[Scott --]

Just a quick update: I found a photo somewhere online where someone had simply screwed piece of wood over the hole to cover it, and used a screw thread in the center to be able to mount it to a normal tripod. I've shied away from trying to get the dismountable legs as the general consensus seems to be that they're rickety.
Also, I bought a 5x7 Ansco holder and 3 5x7 Kodak holders and none of them fit. The plate holder that came with it is the only one that does and I just have to make some corners to convert it.

Tripod mount/base plate construction (http://wp.me/pWENv-4o)...

[ambermai]

Hey Scott, YES yours was base in question. I couldn't remember where I'd found it! Thank you.

[Fourtoes]

And that will save you putting screws through your woodwork.

[Robert Brummitt]

Here is my Rajah. It's a bit dusty. I used it maybe twice.

[Robert Brummitt]

Here it is in all it's glory.