Modern lubes for Norma?

[j.e.simmons]

I just picked up a later model Norma in good shape, but the movements are stiff. I'm sure it's from old lube. The manual says to clean it with petrol and to relube with grease. Are there more modern cleaners and lubes that would work well?

[nolindan]

For "petrol" read Ronsinol lighter fluid. Mobil 1 synthetic grease works well and won't gum up.

[John Layton]

My wife (looking over my shoulder) asks the question: "Who's Norma?"

[notorius]

My wife (looking over my shoulder) asks the question: "Who's Norma?"

Made my day! I had to reread the original post and it can be confusing at least...

[Daniel Unkefer]

"Petrol" in the Norma instruction book refers to what has been described as "white gas". Closest thing around here in USA is Coleman Camping Cooking stuff. "Electronic Contact Cleaner" is what I use to clean my Normas. Right now I have about twelve Normas in my studio. Philip Morgan out in California has had an extensive writing and videos too, about safely restoring 4x5 Normas. I do not recommend taking it apart, until you have found Philip's excellent directions. Many in the past have destroyed Normas. It's a highly intricate beautiful mechanism worthy of restoration.

Moly EP Grease (for auto brake repairs) is about the same thing as the original Norma grease. A can of this will last your lifetime. Works good for relubing the basic contact points in the instruction book. This you can easily do yourself without consequences. DO NOT try to disassemble the micro focusing drive without proper instruction. Completely stripping down, adjusting, cleaning, relubing, and assembly is a MAJOR undertaking but do-able and well worth it.

Congrats :)

[Daniel Unkefer]

"The Rough Guide to Cleaning, Lubricating, and Adjusting the Sinar Norma" by Philip Morgan is what to look for, it's been a while since it came out

Anybody here still have an active link to it?

[bmikiten]

My wife (looking over my shoulder) asks the question: "Who's Norma?"

Best post of the week.

[Jeff Keller]

Try
https://s1p.doczz.net/store/data/002811502.pdf?k=AwAAAYnBAltYAAACWEyFPxETU8oH2vgoAfZkmUZ8gMKy#pdfjs.action=download

jeff


"The Rough Guide to Cleaning, Lubricating, and Adjusting the Sinar Norma" by Philip Morgan is what to look for, it's been a while since it came out

Anybody here still have an active link to it?

[Drew Wiley]

Cleaning is the most important aspect. Get the old grime off. Some of the Norma components are basically "self-lubricted", namely, the durable old plastic parts equivalent to modern Delrin. Beware of electronics contact cleaners : incorrectly used, those aerosol cans can freeze parts and make them brittle. That was a favorite trick with bicycle thieves - they simply spray freeze the padlock and give it a whack with a ball pein hammer. As far as lubes go, I prefer something liquid with a solvent which totally evaporates, and containing no silicone.

The choices are different from back when Norma was a youthful fraulein. I try to keep LPS1 greaseless lube on hand. It was the best product our locksmithing Dept ever found, and I've used it on all kinds of machinery. Outgasses reasonably quickly. But remove your bellows before fooling with any lubricant. Coleman Fuel or white gas sounds more like something Smokey the Bear would choose to commit arson. Since cameras are rather small projects, if alcohol doesn't work as a degreaser, I just use PEC film cleaner (wear nitrile gloves).

Before starting any Norma overhaul you want a set of metric allen wrenches and a good set of jewelers screwdrivers. And you have to be aware that there are tiny screws locking other screws, preventing them from loosening; so don't force anything. But once you know the tricks, these are easy cameras to maintain.

[Daniel Unkefer]

To get the petrified clay out of disassembled Norma mechanisms: Elec Contact Blast/Toothbrush, round wooden toothpicks for picking out crap (Drew is right; beware what you blast/breathe!!). PB Blaster suggested by Philip works great on stuck things. And silicone spray on the rails do make for smoother sliding if you like that sort of thing. Some Normas have lived particularly filthy lives.

[Drew Wiley]

Filthy? I never heard that about Norma before, and wasn't aware of her shameful past. She always seemed like a decent gal to me. I guess we all get fooled sometimes. But still, I wouldn't try to enhance her with silicone; it's bad for her bellows, or really any kind of fabric, leather, or wood. But we're talking about a metal monorail with an easily removable bellows. I never clean a bellows interior except with compressed air.

Guess I was lucky, and acquired two mint condition original tapered 4X5 Norma bellows, which I like a lot more than the later Sinar box bellows. But they're all fully interchangeable. Had my Norma out in the drippy cloud forest yesterday. Wonderful light.

[j.e.simmons]

Thanks everybody. And thanks for the link to the guide. I'd been looking for it.

And my Norma appears to have lived in a convent.

[Havoc]

And my Norma appears to have lived in a convent.

Now I wonder what the nuns do in the darkroom...

[John Layton]

Developing nasty habits? (but only with modern lubes...no doubt!) :rolleyes:

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52717924679_cd7a35a2ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR)SINAR AD 03-1964 (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Sinar Norma Ad from March 1962. "The Automatic View Camera"

[Duolab123]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52717924679_cd7a35a2ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR)SINAR AD 03-1964 (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Sinar Norma Ad from March 1962. "The Automatic View Camera"

This reminds me of the ad for the Leica M4 " You can load it wearing gloves" :cool:

[Drew Wiley]

And to think that Sinar later developed remote controlled view cameras will full movements which could hypothetically even go robotized into "hot" nuclear reactor areas and neatly record things (obviously with digital sensors rather than film). But what I get a kick out of is how all those old ads involve someone with a suit and tie. That dates them. But he is one step ahead of me - having the Sinar shutter, which would allow me to use some of my barrel lenses too.

Well, gotta go and develop my last batch of Norma shots.

[NormaN]

I just picked up a later model Norma in good shape, but the movements are stiff. I'm sure it's from old lube. The manual says to clean it with petrol and to relube with grease. Are there more modern cleaners and lubes that would work well?

Hello

I am about to sell two NORMA sets.

One set 4x5, the other 4x5/5x7 with many accessories.

In the larger set is, among other things, a small, unused original can with "permanent grease". In the original manual the places are marked where first to clean with gasoline and then to use this grease. For the fine drive is mentioned to clean them with gasoline (but do not grease). Unfortunately, it is not mentioned what this grease consists of....

241252
241253

[Serge S]

Yes – that always makes an impression, times were much more formal. Fedoras are gone also. Often wonder how the world will look like in another 50 years.
What an innovative camera the Norma is, with those features it seems it would be one of the best view camera for portrait photographers. As an aside, the design of of logo is quite elegant. Love the font. Reflects well what the camera is all about - an innovative modern design for it's time


But what I get a kick out of is how all those old ads involve someone with a suit and tie. That dates them. But he is one step ahead of me - having the Sinar shutter, which would allow me to use some of my barrel lenses too.
.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50149427941_f25ee0188b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpwVKk)Norma Moly Grease (https://flic.kr/p/2jpwVKk) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

"Premium Moly EP Grease Grasa Tipo Moli EP". Suitable for Ford Lincoln Mercury chassis, drum brake bearings, u-joints, etc. Lithium 12 Hydroxy extreme pressure grease. FYI: On the left in the tiny tin, is Sinar Norma original grease, which came with one of my cameras. Sinar used to tape the tin of grease (in a Sinar logo imprinted manila envelope) to the inside cover of the instruction book. As you can clearly see, it's about the same thing. I use a flat wooden toothpick to apply just the tiniest amount to the Norma lube points. Then buff off any excess. Sinar says "just the lightest emulsion coating" which is not much at all. The action should be super silky smooth.

Synthetics? Bah. Sometimes the olde ways are the best. YMMV :) I tried Philip's silicone trick, didn't like it

[Ben Calwell]

I can’t imagine why this model Sinar is called Norma. Does anyone know?

[darr]

I can’t imagine why this model Sinar is called Norma. Does anyone know?

Carl Hans Koch created the Sinar Norma view camera in 1947 from his garage in Switzerland. Norma does not represent a famous female or a family member but the German word for “normal.” It means “standard,” as in a basic view camera kit. Love my Norma. :)

[Ben Calwell]

Carl Hans Koch created the Sinar Norma view camera in 1947 from his garage in Switzerland. Norma does not represent a famous female or a family member but the German word for “normal.” It means “standard,” as in a basic view camera kit. Love my Norma. :)

Thanks, Darr — that explains it.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I think NORMA is engraved on the front of the basic rail, since everything hooks on to that. Hence "Standard". Endcap with Sinar Rule snaps into the front. Rule is quite useful for determining bellows extension factors. It's engraved on the back side of the rule.

[Drew Wiley]

It's because it was so well thought out that it made other cameras seem abnormal.

[rdenney]

Moly grease is black and will stain. Be aware. Molybdenum Disulfide is a superb anti-wear additive for situations of high pressure and temperature, but honestly it seems overkill for a view camera. Valvoline Synpower is a good one, too.

The white stuff in the Sinar photo looks to me like lithium grease, like the old Lubriplate. Campagnolo branded similar stuff for bicycles.

Rick “who uses Molykote DX for watch parts that are greased—bring your checkbook” Denney

[ashro20]

Moly grease is black and will stain. Be aware. Molybdenum Disulfide is a superb anti-wear additive for situations of high pressure and temperature, but honestly it seems overkill for a view camera. Valvoline Synpower is a good one, too.

The white stuff in the Sinar photo looks to me like lithium grease, like the old Lubriplate. Campagnolo branded similar stuff for bicycles.

Rick “who uses Molykote DX for watch parts that are greased—bring your checkbook” Denney By the way to have your homework done use this website (https://myhomeworkdone.com/astronomy.html)

thank you for the warning rdenney! about moly grease

[Daniel Unkefer]

thank you for the warning rdenney! about moly grease

**Wear nitrile gloves around the grease and liquids**

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50056659192_70d28752e8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgksQ9)My collection of Norma cleaning supplies (https://flic.kr/p/2jgksQ9) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here's what i have accumulated so far to clean up my Sinar Normas.

[Daniel Unkefer]

It's because it was so well thought out that it made other cameras seem abnormal.

Hilarious but actually quite true. Well done Drew

[phdgent]

I would advise BALLISTOL, it's an old gun oil (Greman imperial army) I used it on mine and it worked perfectly. One advantage is that you can use it first to clean the movenent's gears and then lube these with fresh oil.
It doesn't stiff up, is not greasy, it penetrates in the metal's surface structure, it conservate, it is easy to clean a way and you only need a very a few drops.

[Fungus]

I would advise BALLISTOL, it's an old gun oil (Greman imperial army) I used it on mine and it worked perfectly. One advantage is that you can use it first to clean the movenent's gears and then lube these with fresh oil.
It doesn't stiff up, is not greasy, it penetrates in the metal's surface structure, it conservate, it is easy to clean a way and you only need a very a few drops.

Is Ballistol equivalent to BreakFree?

[phdgent]

Is Ballistol equivalent to BreakFree?

I don't know BreakFree.
Ballistol is a kind of mineral based oil for lubing, cleaning, maintaining and preserving shooting weapons, all kinds of metals, leather (uniform), wood stock, rubber, animal care (cavalry), superficial skin wounds, and all kinds of needs a soldier would encounter in the (war-) field...
It was formulated more than 100 years ago for the German army.
I have always used it on my cameras to gently clean and lube the deferent surfaces like the leatherette of my Hasselblad, the dovetails and fixing buttons of my Linhof, even the screw thread (or the bayonet) of a filter's mount when it squeaked, simply everything...
But not the inside, like the mechanics, that's the domain of experienced technicians!

It protects and prolonges the life of different kind of plastics against becoming brittle due to skin residues and the UV rays too.

I call it the photographers friend, but perhaps that's a bit too personal...

https://www.ballistol-shop.nl/nieuws/de-ballistol-story-de-historie-van-ballistol/

[Tin Can]

Wasn't an Important WW11 Russian battle won as the German lube jammed their guns in very cold conditions...

I use modern goop

[phdgent]

Wasn't an Important WW11 Russian battle won as the German lube jammed their guns in very cold conditions...

I use modern goop

I don't know that faits divers.
But what I heard of is that in the desert when the English bombarded a German supply convoy, all the Ballistol was destroyed and they couldn't maintain their guns any more...

BTW, I have used my Ballistol treated camera in the freezing wind and never had any problems.

But ofcourse these is are personal experiences, you can have others and you should choose the product you thrust.

[j.e.simmons]

I see two kinds of Ballistol - one in a spray can and another that appears to be a liquid. Is it the liquid you use?

[phdgent]

I see two kinds of Ballistol - one in a spray can and another that appears to be a liquid. Is it the liquid you use?

Yes it's the one in a bottle I use, and sparingly (sometimes with a syringe).