20x24 color film?

[RETRO MoGraph]

Hi folks,

I'm just tire-kicking here, but i'm curious, has 20x24 color film ever been available?

I know about the discontinued Polaroid and also some DIY efforts, and i saw Portra listed up to 20x24 on a couple of legacy webpages.

But as far as i can tell there is nothing currently available.

I heard about some intermittent production runs by Kodak & Ilford that happen when enough speciality orders have amassed, but perhaps that's only for B&W film?

Thanks for your time!

[Mark Sampson]

As I understand it, Kodak has very large minimum requirements for film special orders. Keith Canham, the camera maker, often organizes such orders from Kodak; I'd ask him.
Ilford offers film special orders once a year, but that is for black-and-white only, of course.
i haven't heard of Fuji offering special orders, but perhaps someone else here can answer that question.
And apart from the cost of purchasing 20x24 color film, there's the related question of who could process it.

[Drew Wiley]

You'd have to process it yourself in 20X24 drums, one sheet at a time. If it can be custom cut to that size at all by Kodak, it's likely to cost you over $200 every time you trip the shutter, for each shot. And the bulk order might be well over $10,000. The odds of anyone else joining such a pool would be quite unlikely. I don't see the point in it. Even if you build a 20X24 color enlarger - a daunting prospect - the depth of field issues alone won't compete with 8X10 results in large prints. And near contact-print quality can be obtained using 8X10 enlargements with critical apo enlarging lenses and other optimized protocol, including the right film and paper. The proof is in the pudding. I just made some of those last week, and will soon do more. The film flatness issue alone would require a specialized holder of either vac or adhesive variety. Lots of logistical problems.

But no harm kicking the tires, and imagining. Just don't kick the Rolls Royce hood ornament.

[Tin Can]

A special few have ordered and used

They don't brag

Remeber the NYC Train station

Perhaps I saw some in California at the Movie in the round with standing only with a guard rail

I was amazed!

[Oren Grad]

Yes. See, for example:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0LLk32ovGefBmpYzgifJjQsmtadQrmwjKoWkwwyWBUfFLzEKvW6t2uR2mzjhs7Kcjl&id=100057174681726

If you're seriously interested, ask Keith Canham:

https://canhamcameras.com/kodakfilm.html

+1 to what Drew said about the cost.

[Drew Wiley]

Many of the NYC station Colorama prints were enlarged from 35mm, and some from 8x10 originals. The nearby separate suite of big DT prints was enlarged mostly from 4X5. I once talked to the owner of the former lab which made the DT's. It's probably been quite awhile since Kodak cut anything larger than 11X14, and back then it probably would have been Vericolor L. Some of that turned up at an estate sale in this area a few years ago when a big studio owner passed away. To prove there was actually film in the boxes, the idiot in charge of the auction actually opened up the boxes and took cell phone shots of the film inside them! But it was all no doubt hopelessly outdated anyway, on shelves all those years and never frozen. The biggest chrome film was 11X14, while color neg was present in 8X10, 11X14, and 12X20. The largest commercial enlargers made, and once in use in the Bay Area, were only up to 11X14 capacity, so all this was relative to contact printing instead, possibly by a local DT outfit still in the area at the time. That particular studio mostly did medium format portraiture via ordinary C-print optical enlargement. It was almost an assembly-line operation in a big attractive building. One of their former assistants who did a lot of the actual shooting left, opened window business in the same neighborhood, and then ended up in our window & door dept across the Bay, and is due to retire this winter.

[Tin Can]

I never open FB

However I have been in 2 buys with Mr Canham

Thanks Oren


Yes. See, for example:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0LLk32ovGefBmpYzgifJjQsmtadQrmwjKoWkwwyWBUfFLzEKvW6t2uR2mzjhs7Kcjl&id=100057174681726

If you're seriously interested, ask Keith Canham:

https://canhamcameras.com/kodakfilm.html

+1 to what Drew said about the cost.

[RETRO MoGraph]

Thanks guys,

So with all these headaches, why does anyone shoot on 20x24?

[domaz]

Thanks guys,

So with all these headaches, why does anyone shoot on 20x24?

Probably for 20x24 color contact prints. Is it worth it? That's really for you to decide.

[RETRO MoGraph]

Probably for 20x24 color contact prints. Is it worth it? That's really for you to decide.

Right!

To be honest, i didn't see much in 20 x 24 that impressed me .... seems kinda like the extreme mountaineering of photography: "We do it because it's there"! ....... I'm not a fan of shallow depth of field, perhaps that's part of the problem?

[Drew Wiley]

ULF is great for alt UV contact printing processes. Take one look at Carleton Watkins' mammoth plate albumen prints and you'll be salivating to do the same. The only difference is that he was sponsored by an early transcontinental railway, had his own darkroom caboose, as well as whole mule trains of assistants when needed. Others used even far bigger cameras. I've seen frontier contact prints 4 X 8 feet wide; their tripod was called a scaffold which took carpenters three days to build in advance of any shot, replete with stairs. The biggest and most boring photo ever made was by turning a blimp hanger in Southern Calif into a giant pinhole camera, and suspending 200 feet of canvas in there, using paint rollers to coat that with liquid light, and then taking an exposure of the adjacent vacant parking lot with some burb buildings beyond.

I'm another person who has participated in Keith Canham's ordering pools, but only with respect to 8X10 film. Anything like 5X7 or 11X14 is likely to take quite a bit longer to accumulate the necessary minimum order from Kodak. Ilford cuts special sizes of black and white film once a year based on advance orders. But rather than a painting, Jimmy Carter had his official Presidential portrait done via a 20X24 Polaroid taken by AA. It would be nice if that kind of option still existed.

[Mark Sampson]

I think time has proven 8x10 to be the "sweet spot" for image quality, especially when balanced against the cost and effort of the ULF formats.
There is a recent thread here about "downsizing" from 8x10... looking through that will tell you where people think that "sweet spot" is.
And Tracy Storer, who is a member here, ran the Polaroid 20x24 studio for many years. i'd ask him about working that big.

[Drew Wiley]

If I were young and ambitious again, I'd make my own 16X20 camera and get into UV printing. But I cut my teeth on color printing, trend toward long focus lenses (a bellows nightmare where ULF is involved), and like the detail enhancement ability of large prints. 8X10 is my sweet spot, though that might not be the case if the price of color film keeps climbing, and I'm still able to handle 8x10 gear when my freezer stash of color film finally runs out, maybe when I'm 80. I've always liked the longer rectangle of 5X7 format; but 5x7 color film has always been dicey to acquire; and registration of 8x10 film (often necessary in color film masking, and a nice option for b&w printing control too) is more precise, though I have punch and register gear for both. And if I want a longer rectangle using 8X10 film, I merely need to crop the image somewhat when enlarging. I'm not going to buy another camera at my age, especially since I have three 8X10 enlargers plus my 5X7 one. More an more, I'm shooting 6X9 RF's anyway, which give me that nice 2:3 proportion in a nice portable package as I grow older. But gosh, 8X10's provide wonderful enlargements.

[FrancisF]

There is much good 20 x24 analog color photography going on - without film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2XBu0WjeK4

[Tin Can]

Yes sir

I see he has gone big, RA4 20X24 process in holder

https://youtu.be/l2XBu0WjeK4

[RETRO MoGraph]

Thanks for all the input folks!

[Joseph Kashi]

I took a look at the FB images of the film box labels and the expiration date appears to be 05/24.

[RETRO MoGraph]

There is much good 20 x24 analog color photography going on - without film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2XBu0WjeK4

I'll be honest: from a fun, hipsterish point of view, i thought it was cool, but the results........... meh ......... perhaps also because they failed to put anything interesting in front of the camera.

20x24 Polaroids on the other hand, some of those are amazing!

[Drew Wiley]

Back in Cibachrome days a few people shot it in camera for a direct-positive color print. Lots of added filtration needed.