Digital Color is Making Me Crazy. Need Book.

[John Sarsgard]

I am an experienced traditional darkroom printer in black and white. I'm not perfect but I'm pretty good. Never did color with chemicals. Need to get more than casually OK doing color digitally. Frankly, all the articles and incomplete explanations of part of the process are driving me crazy. I am willing to invest considerable time reading something that deals with EVERYTHING. Looking for help finding it all written down in one place. Examples of issues....
1. Photoshop preferences. Where is an explanation of all of the settings, and why I want to pick the ones I do?
2. I have calibrated my monitor with a hardware calibrator. How can I make sure Photoshop is using the profile?
3. I use a Mac. Just what does ColorSync really do? I have read all the brochure level info about how wonderful it is. Do I want to use it?
4. How to I profile my scanner and make sure PS uses that profile for scanned input, but not for digital camera input?
5. Do I want to work in Adobe 1998, or sRGB for digital camera images, and does it screw things up to convert from one to another?
6. Paper. Can't find many Epson papers (I have Epson printers) locally, even at CompUSA. Tried some Kodak the other day, downloaded their profile, unclear EXACTLY what Epson printer settings to use. Told me to make all kinds of changes to PS preferences, without any info on why or whether I need to change everything for another paper.

These are just examples. I'm tired of fooling around and getting substandard results. I want to invest in getting it all set up right. I don't think I can do that without really understanding what I am doing. I expect to buy an expensive book if necessary. And almost surely a few bottles of good whisky!

Not looking for short answers or silver bullets. I want to invest the time, but not on a fool's errand. Suggestions? Many thanks.

[Michael Graves]

I'm sure you'll get a dozen or more answers to your question about a book, but I found Adobe's Classroom in a Book to be very useful.

[Kirk Gittings]

Bruce Fraser's Real World Photoshop.

[Brian Ellis]

I had the same problem as you, a lot b&w darkroom experience, very little color. The book I found most useful was Real World Photoshop CS by David Blatner and Bruce Fraser. It has several excellent chapters on color management. They aren't something to be skimmed quickly but if you take the time to carefully study and re-read them a few times you'll be rewarded. I've owned five or six Photoshop books inluding Photoship Artistry and Photoshop for Photographers. I thought the Blatner/Fraser book was the best of them.

[Marko]

John,

There is a bimonthly magazine called Phostoshop User - you get a subscription automatically by buying annual membership in NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals), but you can also buy individual copies at your local Borders.

They usually publish anual breakdown of greatest tips in the last edition of the year, which is right now. They also advertise and also review lots of books. The magazine itself has lots of tips for any level and they're all pretty well explained.

The magazine is easy to get used to and no, I am not affiliated with them in any way. Not even a member yet.

Regards,

[Ron Marshall]

John, I have thoroughly read three PS books and looked at all of those presently on offer dealing with CS or CS2. I read: PS CS2 for Photographers (Martin Evening) lots of info, but I found it difficult to progress quickly because of the way in which the book is organised; PS CS for Photography (Tom Ang) short and sweet but too basic; Real World PS CS(Fraser, Blatner) very good coverage of most aspects and easier to read and learn from than the Evening book.

Of the PS books I have perused at the bookstore the only one which stands out for me is PS CS Artistry (Haynes, Crumpler), more directed to photographers than Fraser's book and as well written. I intend to purchase it when the CS2 version is available in Feb. 2006.

[Walt Calahan]

I learned a lot from Scott Kelby's Photoshop CS2 Book for Digital Photographers.

Fraser is excellent too.

[Bill_1856]

I've tried most all those books, and they ain't enough. You need a hands-on course to get to the point in Photoshop where the books will take you where you want to go.

[Saulius]

Have you considered taking a workshop geared towards photographers? I took one several years back run at the time by Barry Haynes (http://www.maxart.com) and Charles Cramer Charles Cramer (http://www.charlescramer.com). I found Haynes book Photoshop Artistry most helpful. Having an experienced lf photographer in a classroom to give you guidance was great. Mr. Cramer was very informative and forthcoming with his knowledge.

[Jerry Fusselman]

To me, one book seems far better than all of the others: Photoshop LAB Color, by Dan Margulis.

Let me try to describe who this book is for:

You want to be very efficient with your time in Photoshop (I.e., you want a repertoire of big-bang-for-the-buck corrections);

You want to understand the theory and why instead of memorizing steps;

You like images that bring out detail, look realistic (like what your eyes saw when you were there), and nevertheless look terrific;

You like books that have quizzes so that you can be sure that you have digested what has been covered so far;

You want one book that handles most of your needs for color correction, retouching, sharpening, and selecting;

You want some techniques that far surpass what professionals usually accomplish.

On the negative side:

You need a second book if you are new to Photoshop, for the advanced sections assume that you have some experience with Photoshop;

You might not like all of the theory, though the author states that you might be able to ignore it and still do well;

You might have a preconceived notion that the L.a.b. color space is too difficult to learn. Personally, I think it is easier to work with than RGB or CMYK, but I know most would disagree.

[QT Luong]

While Real World Photoshop is good, if you want to understand everything about digital color, the book to read is
Real World Color Management (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321267222/alargeformatphot).

[paulr]

another vote for the Real World Photoshop series.

some quick tips:

-memorize the color wheel, or have a copy of it handy
-work in RGB (there are many reasons for this, unrelated to how easy it is ... but it is relatively easy to learn)
-learn to make all your adjustments with a Curves layer. All tonal adjustments and all color corrections. It might make you crazy in the begining, but it will be worth it. Resist the temptation to use Color Balance, Hue/Saturation, or Levels. Some of these tools have their place, but you want to master Curves first.
-finally (or first) make sure you're starting with a good scan. If you have curve crossing issues in the scan, getting the color right can be murder.

[Howard Slavitt]

Another strong vote for Real World Photoshop by Fraser and Blatner.

Years ago when Photoshop 4 (now we're on Photoshop 9) was the latest and greatest, I started learning Photoshop and have read 1 to 2 books everytime I upgrade (I've upgraded to each new version). The first book I read was the then current version of PS Artistry (Haynes, Crumpler), which someone else is recommending. It was very helpful, but I don't think it compares to Real World Photoshop.

I've studied 2 or 3 versions of Real World Photoshop. They're all similar, but I purchased a couple of different versions because I figured it was worth rereading a couple of times, and figured if I'm going to study it again it's worth reading the most recent version. Each time I read and study the book I learn a lot of new things, and assimilate it at a different level.

The most recent book I read was Photoshop Raw the CS 2 version by Fraser. It is also fantastic if you're going to be working with Raw digital files.

One other comment -- I'd recommend avoiding the Dan Margulis book for your first book. I've read a lot of articles by Margulis. He's extremely knowledgeable and proficient in Photoshop. However, he is a contrarian, advocating an approach that differs from the mainstream color management and colorsync approach recommended by just about everyone else. So if you're interested in Margulis' apprpoach, you should probably first read Real World Photoshop, and then you'll know what he's opposing.

It takes awhile to assimilate the information, but it's worth it.

[neil poulsen]

Here are some answers to your questions. These are from my own point of view:

1] Photoshop Settings: Based on other parts of your questions, I'm wondering if you mean the Color Settings. I would use Adobe RGB (1998) for your RGB working space, select U.S. Web Coated for CMYK, and 20% dot gain for Gray. (Don't know about spot.) As for C.M. Policies, select Preserve Embedded Profiles for all of these and select "Ask When Opening" for the three questions. Usually, when profiles are embedded, the embedder, whether it be person or software, knows what they're doing by embedding the profile. (We assume this.)
If you have two disk drives, put your swap file on one and the image file on another.

2] As long as it's selected, the operating system takes care of using your monitor profile. So, don't worry about what Photoshop sees, as far as the monitor profile is concerned. At least, there's no place in Photoshop where you select a Monitor profile of which I'm aware. You can make sure the correct profile is selected by going to Preferences|Displays|Color. Highlight the correct profile. Don't try to change the profile's file name. The profile belongs in the following folder: Library|ColorSync|Profiles.

3] I see where there's a place where one can select ColorSync, Adobe (ACE), or Apple CMM. I'm not sure about the differences between these three. I doubt you can go much wrong with the default of Adobe (ACE). I need to find out more about these.

4] Frankly, I wouldn't profile my scanner, unless I needed to do color reproduction with it, where color accuracy was really important. Otherwise, your scanner's color gamut becomes limited to the scanner target that you employ. In the case of Kodak's IT8 target, that's not good. This is especially true, if you plan on modifying your colors, anyway. If you do profile your scanner, it depends on your scanner. One system of which I'm aware embeds the profile and you assign it when it comes into Photoshop. Even if it's not embedded, you can assign it when you bring in the image. After loading the image, make sure the profile's in the above folder and invoke Edit|Assign and select the profile from the drop down menu. Make sure the scanner doesn't assign it first, which I doubt. You don't want to assign it twice. The image's colors will change, when you assign the scanner profile. You want this to happen. It's modifying the colors by correcting them.

5] Don't work in sRGB ever, with the possible exception of the web. I believe that sRGB gives you the grand total of 256 colors with which to work. Adobe 1998 is the most accepted working space in which to work. Some people use ProPhoto, but only with 16 bit images.

6] If you're not using Epson papers, you'll need to find a profile, or have one made for your paper and for your printer. Strange that you can't find Epson papers; go to a photo store. Check your manual on where to load the profile prior to printing. On Epson printers, there's a drop down menu from which one selects Color Management. Specify your printer profile there under Print Space. You may need to specify your profile, or at least the paper you're using, in one more place, just before you print. This tells the driver about ink restrictions. The above applies to my driver. Different drivers operate somewhat differently. When you can, use Black Point Compensation, an Adobe patented feature. (Although, I don't know how they got that one by the unobvious requirement.) It's a good thing and gives you better separation in the shadows.

[Mark Stahlke]

Hi John,

I recommend taking a look at "Color Confidence" by Tim Grey. This is not a book on how to use Photoshop although PS is used for the examples. Rather, this is a book about color management. It's full of information about color spaces, profiles, color correction and even has some suggested workflows. Just to whet your appetite, here is the Table of Contents:

1. Foundations

2. Photoshop Setup

3. Display

4. Scanning

5. Digital Capture

6. Optimization

7. Output

8. Worlflow

Take a look at it at a bookstore or library and see if it answers your questions.

Cheers

[Kirk Keyes]

"5] Don't work in sRGB ever, with the possible exception of the web. I believe that sRGB gives you the grand total of 256 colors with which to work. "

Neil - I think sRGB has more like 256*256*256 colors. It is just a smaller color space than Adobe RGB. Scroll down a bit on this page to see a comparison. http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm

Kirk

[neil poulsen]

Kirk,

We shall see about that me lad, yes indeed, we shall see!

But then, it is clear that I have FULLY covered myself, fully covered. For it is plain for all to see that I said,

"I believe . . . "

So, I never actually said 'twas so.

But to my advice to avoid sRGB like the plague, I stand by that. To work within sRGB is like to taking a hedge clipper to your image. To someone else's, perhaps. But, not to yours.

Neil

[Kirk Keyes]

"But to my advice to avoid sRGB like the plague, I stand by that. "

Certainly good advice there!

[Marko]

Neil and Kirk, no offense meant, but I think you confuse bit depth and color space.

Bit depth is a number of shades available per each of the three color channels in the RGB digital image and applies equally to sRGB as it does to AdobeRGB, or any other color space for that matter. In the 8-bit image red, green and blue channels are each capable of representing 256 shades of red, green and blue "colors" respectively. Therefore, total number of shades available in an 8-bit image is approx. 16 million.

Total number of shades available in 16-bit RGB image would be in the billions, since each of the three channels is capable of representing 4096 shades. This all aplies to color images - grayscale images are single-channel only, and therefore can represent 256 shades of gray in 8 bit depth or 4096 shades of gray in 16 bit depth.

This is why it is recommended to scan in 16-bit RGB for best results. While we do end up discarding lot of that information in the end by converting to 8-bit, we discard it AFTER all the processing is already done and in the process reduce banding and posterization.

sRGB and AdobeRGB (and others) are color spaces - they define not the number of shades but the number of colors available. Each of those colors can be represented using either 8 or 256 shades.

That being said, it is still a very sound advice not to use sRGB for anything except screen representation, as it has been tailored specifically for that purpose. Virtually any other output device has wider color capability and AdobeRGB is usually the best compromise.

Regards,

[Kirk Keyes]

Marko - I don't believe that I was confusing color space and/or bit depth.

"sRGB and AdobeRGB (and others) are color spaces - they define not the number of shades but the number of colors available. "

And I also don't believe that your sentence here is right either - color spaces do not affect the "number of colors available". They affect the saturation and range of possible colors, i.e. the spacing between the possible colors if you will.

After all, 256*256*256 is still the same "number" of colors regardless of the color space chosen, right?

[Wick Beavers]

RGB98 and all other color spaces describe the color gamut or range of their respespective spaces. On a Mac, (in your colorsynch folder) you can view the color spaces in 3D, and utilizing the "hold for overlay" (or something similar), you are able to overlay one space on another to verify and decide which space you want or need to work in. RGB 98 is indeed very large and very commonly used and is the right choice normally to set in your Photoshop preferences setup.
Gamut ranges indicate how many colors are included in the device specific hardware you're using the colors in. ICC profiles intend to translate various gamuts one uses in the shoot to print or publish process and Colorsynch is Apple's soiftware app that interprets (transparently!) the various translations in the process.
When you shoot an image, the optimum (unless you're only shooting for a client who will run off with your originals) idea is to shoot in the largest file size, widest color space and highest bit depth possible today. I know many wedding photographers shoot in sRGB and jpeg file format but they don't intend to make their images again and again in multiple outputs. You can always diminish or throw away information, but you can't regenerate it bigger (file sizes CAN theoretically be enlarged, but they are subject to interpolation algorithms and you're subject to somebody's interpolation -you lose control!- and therefore reduction of image quality). Further, there is really nothing you have to think about when it comes to Colorsynch, but you do have to make sure you have up to date ICC profiles for all your various devices, including, ideally, paper profiles for the papers you want to print to. And vendors make it pretty easy by usually putting them in the download package so you don;t generally need to go out and hunt them down. There is a typical exception- paper ICC profiles for the papers you intend to print on.
As far as Photoshop goes, you need to play with it for endless hours, but a great way to end run most of us who have, is to take a class with a pro photographer (not an illustrator or a "digital artist" as they will have you putting blazing purple rings around heads and over high pass sharpening everything rather than teaching you the basic-and subtle, powerful- uses of levels, curves and saturation controls.
FINALLY! Go out tomorrow morning and buy a ColorEyes Monitor calibration device so you WILL see the colors you're editing. They run about $150-$399 for the "good enough" ones.
Cheerio!