Beseler 45 V-XL vignetting; what's going on?

[Michael Wellman]

Last summer I moved up from a Besler 45MX to 45XL. The enlarger had all of the manuals and one owner. I thought it would be the closet I would come to having a new enlarger. Unfortunately I haven't had much time since then to use it. Now thanks to social isolation I ventured in today to do some printing. Much to my surprise I was getting some vignetting. I started to take things apart to see what was going on. What I found amazed me. Either this was put together wrong or there is some bizarre engineering going on here.

When you look down from the light source the lens stage is not directly in line but opening is in the 2 O'clock position. If you look at the picture the bottom the screen is the front of the enlarger. You can see where the dark area is (this is where the lens board goes into) there is a vignetting occurring. The second picture is without the lens board holder in place so it's a straight view to the base board.
Another view looking straight down from the light source with lens board holder in place with no lens board on

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Here's the view from the bottom looking up
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Now if I turn the lens board 180 degrees there is no vignetting that occurs. However, it is not possible to attach the lens board holder this way given the screw positions to attach the board.

Was this put together wrong? Bad engineering? Any ideas how I can fix this? Right now I'm wishing I had my old Besler 45MX. Thanks
Michael

[Michael Wellman]

Here is the view from the bottom. The second photo shows there is no vignetting when I turn the lens board holder 180 degrees
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[LabRat]

I have and rebuilt one of these (but it is in dead storage now, so can't check)... It also has this, but if I remember, there was one orientation that seemed to allow normal position of lensboard if the lens was not too big... Had to keep checking the point of optical axis where the lens and carrier lined up correctly...

But mine came to me unassembled, so I had a devil of a time trying to figure it out, and don't exactly remember what I ended up doing... It works correctly, but looked screwy...

Steve K

[McSnood]

I never noticed, mine is the same, interesting. Bought mine used 15 years ago and never had problem. I put the lens board on and the opening is centered to the head with clearance for the lens. Don't know what to tell you. Going to look at this more later today, now you peaked my interest.

[RichardRitter]

Take the lens mount off it is attached by the 3 thumb screws. See if you can remove the plate that is cutting off the image area.

[Michael Wellman]

Thanks Richard. I have given that a thought and I would like to use that as a last resort. It seems to be that there should be a better fix for this after all this is a popular and well built enlarger. Something is wrong here. I didn't notice that when I go to the web page. The exploded diagram of the enlarger the part number for the lens board adapter is different than the one that is in mine. I've written Besler about this. The part number they list is 10-49521. Mine is 10-49524. Curious what part number others have for their lens board. As I said before if I turn the lens board 180 degrees there is no vignetting but the screw holes don't match up.
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[Michael Wellman]

Here is the exploded view of the enlarger. The metal plate that is causing the vignetting is the lens stage, #22. The lens board holder is part #133. It has three holes that screw into the lens stage. So, I can't remove the metal plate that is causing the vignetting (lens stage) and I really don't want to cut it.

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[Kevin Crisp]

I just took mine apart to check. It is exactly like yours. I've never had vignetting with any format, but I'm using the 8x10 cold light head, which sits flat on top of the negative carrier for many formats. It works fine for all sizes except 8x10 that way. 8x10 requires extending the upper bellows (normally fully compressed) about 3". I don't know what light source your using, or lens, or any of that, but you might try different positions on the upper bellows extension to see if that helps.

[Paul Ron]

that plate cant be right. you should have a clear path from light to easel board. there shouldnt be any of obstructions in the light path. remove it.

[Michael Wellman]

Kevin,
I've got a Heiland 4x5 cold light head that sits on top like you described. With 4x5 I noticed it occasionally but usually not a problem.

Paul, I agree with you that it can't be right but that plate you are referring to is the lens plate. It's not possible to remove it. I may end of following Richard Ritters suggestion of cutting out that area (as a last resort). Something is wrong here with the construction or I have the wrong lens board holder.

Thanks for your suggestions

[Paul Ron]

im not following... thats the lens board or the lens stage where the lens board mounts to?

you mentioned it cant be removed, because its casted in or riveted?

can you remove the lens n its lens board n take a picture top down? whats tye underside look like?

[Corran]

I'm interested to see what you come up with.

I recently got my XL up and running. It's a nice enlarger, but I noticed this same problem sometimes! I found that angling the negative just right would fix it, but that only works with small prints.

[Michael Wellman]

If you look at the schematic it's a little easier to see. The lens stage (part 22) is the metal plate at the bottom that the bellows attaches to and has a large off center hole. Below this attaches the lens board adapter (part 133). This is what I am holding in my hand from the picture I posted earlier this morning. It has a square opening and has three attachment points to the lens stage. When the lens adapter is screwed in place (and there is only one way to attach it) the square opening of the lens board adapter is eclipsed by the off center hole of the lens stage (which you can see in the pictures from my OP). If I remove the lens stage (part 22) then there is nothing for the bellows to attach to or for my lens board adapter to attach to. If the lens board adapter is flipped 180 then there is no overlap but there is no way to attach the lens board adapter to the lens board.

None of this makes sense to me. Why would you have an off center hole for the lens stage? I've owned multiple enlargers in my life and I don't recall ever seeing a design like this. Why would the lens board adapter have a partial obstruction in the mounted position and a clear opening in a position it's not possible to mount it in?

[Paul Ron]

i tried looking for a manual but cant find anything.

cut that thing!

[wager123]

the part you are talking about is also found on MXT enlargers it has to do with the 3 lens adapter , i have 2 mxt 's one has it the other doesn't it is not a defect

[LabRat]

Don't worry, you don't have to cut it, just in one orientation the hole is way off center, lens fits, and works fine...

Steve K

[ic-racer]

As mentioned above, that opening is off center for the lens turret. Not shown in your diagram above (#110 on this diagram)

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[Paul Ron]

OH WAIT... thats the plate for a turret. It has to black out 2 lenses so the one selected is the only lens being lit.

That explains it!

dont cut it. the center of the lens in use should be the center of the light path.

[Michael Wellman]

I don't have the turret but you're correct that is where it would be

[Michael Wellman]

IC-racer: I can see why the may have designed that offset for that purpose (lens turret) but I don't have one of those. Even if I did the vignetting would still be there?

For those of you who have a 45V XL can you tell me what your part number is for the Lens Board Adapter? Mine is 10-49524. You can see where the number is listed below
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[Bob Salomon]

IC-racer: I can see why the may have designed that offset for that purpose (lens turret) but I don't have one of those. Even if I did the vignetting would still be there?

For those of you who have a 45V XL can you tell me what your part number is for the Lens Board Adapter? Mine is 10-49524. You can see where the number is listed below
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Why don’t you just contact Beseler in PA and ask them?

[Michael Wellman]

Thanks. I did that on Friday. In the past they have taken a little while to get back with me. I came here because there are a lot of knowledgeable people. I've got some time today. I'm going to take it apart and put things back together. Maybe I will have an "Ahaa" moment. thanks again for your suggestions

[Neal Chaves]

Just get out the sabre saw and cut the throat out square. This allows you to mount a wide variety of lenses like the 240mm 5.6 Rodagon shown here that I use for 8X10. Note that I had to relieve the lens mount plate a bit for this large lens as well and trim the edges of the lens flange a bit. I doubt this mod would interfere with smooth operation of the Beseler turret if it were attached.
No lens that can go on the turret will cover 8X10. If cutting that notch out allowed light to shine through another lens while using the turret, just put a lens cap on it.
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[Michael Wellman]

Thanks Neal

[John Berry]

Just checked mine is also a 511 and has the obstruction. I have never noticed a problem, but none of the lenses I have used have reached the area. I just checked and the 210 companon might get close. I don't have it on a board. the 240 companon extends far enough to get past. My 10" eastman is the only lens that is big enough reach the obstruction. What lens are you using? If the lens can't reach it, it can't obscure. I second the try upper bellows adjustment before a saw.