Bellows Material

[mit nitram]

Hello Everybody,

This is my very first post on this most interesting site. A heads up on material for making your own bellows. Whilst researching this seemingly easy task (finding material) and about to give up in disgust I dropped upon this site

Thorlabs
(I cannot find an email address to link)

An (almost) worldwide company

They offer material:- ] 5' x 9' (1.5 m x 2.7 m) x 0.005" (0.12 mm) Thick for around £40 (GBP if you don't know what that funny
symbol is before the 40)

If you already know that's lovely.

If not check it out!

Well, that's all folks

Tim

[Tin Can]

I assume you mean this stuff https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=190

[mit nitram]

Yes, that's the bad boy. What I forgot to include in the thread was is it any good?

[radii]

yes, it's good. Used in two layers, it's lightproof.
Glue the ribs on with 3m transfer tape, or 77 spraymount, on the shiny side of the fabric.
As it's very thin and flexible, bellows larger than 8x10 will sag.
Good luck.

[mit nitram]

Hello All,

Great news, guys. Many grateful(?) thanks to Tin Can and Radii. I know it is going over old ground and boring but it is a new venture for me. i have already made a couple of 5x4 pinhole cameras that work rather well and thought it was time to build a proper 5x4 whilst I can before my joints wave the white flag. It might clear the doldrums as well, there again............!

Happy Tim (for 5 mins)

[alan_b]

Glue the ribs on with 3m transfer tape, or 77 spraymount, on the shiny side of the fabric.
You might want to test glues before committing to building the full bellows. As noted here (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?153805-Cloth-For-Bellows-and-a-few-other-discoveries-I-made) and here (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found), Super 77 may not work so well.

I built a bellows a little over a year ago from a changing bag and Super 77, and the glue is failing. I'll be building a couple new bellows over the next weeks with BK5 fabric, and have some HH-66 vinyl cement to test gluing with.

My last bellows glue started failing after getting wet in a light rain, so I suggest that as a test condition.

[Leszek Vogt]

Since no one addressed the IR film.....will this material work for that ?

Les

[mit nitram]

A changing bag! I had never thought of that one. Well done, alan b. Presumably somewhat water tight as well which I was going to ask in my original enquiry but forgot (an inherent affliction, those naughty neurons).

[radii]

You might want to test glues before committing to building the full bellows. As noted here (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?153805-Cloth-For-Bellows-and-a-few-other-discoveries-I-made) and here (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found), Super 77 may not work so well.

I built a bellows a little over a year ago from a changing bag and Super 77, and the glue is failing. I'll be building a couple new bellows over the next weeks with BK5 fabric, and have some HH-66 vinyl cement to test gluing with.

My last bellows glue started failing after getting wet in a light rain, so I suggest that as a test condition.

I've used both glues on the bk5 fabric, and they haven't failed, 2-3 years later.

[mit nitram]

Hello,

This tread has given me food for thought and I have another question. Has anyone,using BK5 material, have something shiny on the inside to enhance the amount of light (I have just taken delivery of half a pound of pontefract cakes, mmmmmmmmm) inside the bellows?

yours (gobbling liquorice like it's going out of fashion)

Tim

[mit nitram]

Hi everybody,

Another thought, there is the bellows section for a LPL 6x7 enlarger (this is NOT an enlarger for gentlemen with a small p..................Agh my hands have dropped off,divine intervention).

I've sewn my hands back on so, to continue.............

Would or could the bellows section of an enlarger be suitable to adapt into a camera, especially if they are from a 5x4 unit?

I've also spotted an old wooden magic lantern at a very competitive price.

What do you reckon, people?

Tim

[Tin Can]

Often heat damaged from the hot light bulb

[Andrew Tymon]

You might want to try a bookbinding supply they may have a suitable material. When I was in the UK I used this place.https://ratchford.co.uk/products-services/ They would gladly sell us poor students book cloth. They may send samples and you could see if it's relatively light tight. I miss liquorice tablets.

[mit nitram]

The Bad Penny Returns,

That is a good point, Tin Can. But would not a coat or two of some sot of paint cover the damage, or even tape?

I tried that link Andrew, supa-dupa!

Bye for now

Tim

[Tin Can]

You will be back

Good luck

[mit nitram]

like a bad penny Tin Can, like a bad penny.

[Len Middleton]

Has anyone,using BK5 material, have something shiny on the inside to enhance the amount of light inside the bellows?

Tim

Tim,
You want the interior of the bellow to reflect as little of the non-imaging light as possible, to avoid the resulting contrast reduction.
Same reason we use lens hoods...
Good luck,
Len

[mit nitram]

Thanks Len,

I did wonder if there would be some image distortion due to light reflecting in all directions and less of those lovely photons reaching the film plane (getting a bit physical now, photons). I wonder if it would be to read Newton's theories no light, lenses and reflected and refracted light? Has anyone written an article for Dummies on the subject, or know of a decent article on the intra-web?

Tim

[mit nitram]

Tim's Back Again,

I made a mistake last time. The sentence should have read " I wonder if it is worth reading" and not the rubbish I did type (a question of the typing not keeping up with the brain and not scanning the finished post, sorry).

Tim (humble)

[Tin Can]

Bellows can vary by application

Try this forum link first https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?142948-DIY-bag-bellows&p=1417728&viewfull=1#post1417728

Even 2 sliding boxes (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS850US850&biw=1536&bih=760&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=68XCXcm7BIS2swWCo4_ABg&q=sliding+box++bellows&oq=sliding+box++bellows&gs_l=img.3...106553.113203..113628...0.0..0.88.1441.22......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i67j0j0i7i30.2sOSEC4fZIE&ved=0ahUKEwiJ3fiD1NXlAhUE26wKHYLRA2gQ4dUDCAc&uact=5)could be called bellows

camera bag bellows (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS850US850&biw=1536&bih=760&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=ZMXCXc2fGpGasQWdp4nYBw&q=camera+bag+bellows&oq=camera+bag+bellows&gs_l=img.3...132252.133209..133743...0.0..0.65.241.4......0....1..gws-wiz-img.cDyCxFQpBD8&ved=0ahUKEwjN4d7D09XlAhURTawKHZ1TAnsQ4dUDCAc&uact=5)

DIY bellows (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS850US850&biw=1536&bih=760&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=XcbCXb-LOZDYsAX22Iy4Aw&q=DIY+bellows&oq=DIY+bellows&gs_l=img.3..0i67l2j0j0i8i30l3j0i24.75008.79130..79560...0.0..0.89.778.11......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i30.Iy1e203VLb4&ved=0ahUKEwj_rdu61NXlAhUQLKwKHXYsAzcQ4dUDCAc&uact=5)

enlarger bellows (https://www.google.com/search?
rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS850US850&biw=1536&bih=760&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=rsbCXYC6GtD0swWxjbrgCg&q=enlarger+bellows&oq=enlarger+bellows&gs_l=img.3...109718.112715..114057...0.0..0.89.644.9......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i67j0j0i7i30j0i8i7i30j0i8i30.X9Fzp-wfol8&ved=0ahUKEwiAyYzh1NXlAhVQ-qwKHbGGDqwQ4dUDCAc&uact=5)

Needs vary, many here cover a bellows with their darkcloth

The biggest problem is our sources for custom bellows is vastly diminishing

Some bellows were made of Russian red leather 100 years ago and still perfect

Others were made of paper and did not last long...

[mit nitram]

Back Again,

I tried those links, Tin Can and had already thought of a two box type of camera and yes it is a very simple design without and adjustment to the front or back planes unless tow small bag bellows each end. These would consist of a couple of strips of cloth (or any other light tight material, strips of those bags you buy compost ior tree bark in).

Then there was that forum link. It was like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch without the humour,
"Yes it is."
"No it isn't."
"Yes it is!"
"No it isn't!"
"Yes it is!"
And so forth. A teeny bit tiresome and pedantic. And Yes you are right, horses for courses. There was more I wanted to note dfown that I thought of yesterday but............That was yesterday and I am droning on, so.........

Anyone else with ideas?

Tim



.

[Andrew Tymon]

Tim, why don't you tell us more about what you want to build, what you want it to do and your budget for the project. The bellows is just one part of the camera and not as important as say the camera back and holder registration, how you going to focus it? What lenses are you going to use on it? Maybe you could look for a used Intrepid camera as a starter or at least it would give you ideas of a simple construction.

[mit nitram]

I'm planning a 5x4 camera. I have been researching the build for a couple of years, on and off. Building it isn't a problem apart from the bellows. It also has to cost me as little as possible, like nothing. By the way, I am not including a lens here for obvious reasons. That has to be purchased, can't make one of those, I'll leave that to the experts.

So that's that. I really would like to have a go a making the bellows but will probably go for a double box design (or boxes!).

Comments and advice welcome.

[Andrew Tymon]

Here's an idea, why not look in the charity shops for an old Polaroid camera? Some of the early ones had bellows. I have seen Polaroid conversions done or maybe just cannibalize the bellows. It all depends on what you want to photograph and lens you plan on using.

[mit nitram]

What a good idea, Andrew. Who knows what you might find there!?

I shall be using the machine as a , a....a..............Oh dear, brain cell failure.

I shall imagine that I am an Edwardian Gentleman and photographer and use the camera as my ...............I don't know how to put it, you know, life the universe and every thing. 42. As a general camera, you know, this and that, landscape, close-up, portrait, holiday snaps, etc.. I want to see if I can do it, you know, make the thing.

By the way, had I mentioned that I had built two 5x4 pinhole cameras?

[Andrew Tymon]

You did mention it Tim, maybe you could post them in this thread https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?45775-Show-us-your-home-made-camera&highlight=Show+home+made+camera

I only asked about use as that would determine how much bellows extension you would need. I'm building a lightweight 5x7 camera for landscapes. From experience I know I'll need front rise, front tilt, swing and maybe rear rise and rear tilt. I built an 8x10 years ago and so am going to build something similar.

[mit nitram]

The photos have been put somewhere "safe" by one of the homunculi, when I find them I will gladly upload (note the jargon) them, but don't hold your breath.

I know that I can build pinhole cameras (two boxes) and want to try a bellows camera, something simple just for starts and then I can expand the design. The main point of the build is the bellows.

I think it is great that, with a little know-how you can make something that will produce images just as good a a shop-bought camera and save loads of money in the process, after all the camera is a light light piece of the ether in between lens and film, simple.

[LabRat]

For a start, it's going to cost you for materials, supplies, etc and the first set of bellows will not come out very well and you will do a do-over until you are satisfied...

For not much more, you can order new bellows front Rudy (@EC online from the auction site) and have a nice new custom set in weeks... 4X5 bellows are around $100...

But you can buy many different 4X5 cameras for $100-200 dollars that are complete and working, and no learning curve to build...

Building your first camera is like building a guitar so you can learn to play it... Possible, but a high hill to climb, and you don't know yet what it is supposed to do or what you would like it to do YET...

Steve K

[Fr. Mark]

Depending on the camera blackout cloth sold for lining draperies can work, it's white, it's light tight (no idea about IR films), it's inexpensive and readily available in fabric stores in the U.S. I've made bellows stiffeners for 8x10 cameras from thin cardboard or manila folders using rubber cement as adhesive and a thin layer of black cotton fabric on the inside (or black paint in one instance) for darkening the interior. A sliding box camera is hard to get entirely light tight w/o good woodworking and I'd strongly suggest making it so the larger, outside box is in the front, not on the back or film side of the camera so any light leaks at the seal are facing the lens, not the film. The sliding box camera has no movements, but is v. simple and a good choice for a super heavy projector lens with home made waterhouse stops.

A LF camera is not what most would use for quick snaps and portraits, but it can be done.

Actually, lenses can be made at home depending on what you want! There's a book, I think the title is Primitive Photography, which has some information on that for compound lenses.

The typical close-up lens or close up "filter" set can be used as a picture taking lens. At small enough f-stops the sharpness can be "acceptable." However, working at 5x7 at roughly the same focal lengths with a Sinar P and SinarCopal Shutter, just switching lenses, my plasmats (Schneider and Rodenstock) are sharper even at f45. No surprise really. Film (xray film---another cost saver) and developer (making developers from chemicals not pre-made mixes is another cost saver) were the same.

I've used a projector lens from an opaque projector for taking pictures, an f3.6 18" lens. I forget what it weighs. Several pounds ?5 (2+ kilos, maybe 3-4 kilos). It's not ideal for anything but it does a lot of things reasonably well if you have enough bellows. Price was right at the antique shop where I bought it a few years ago.

Making a pleated bellows is tedious. I've thought about making a 14x17 camera from time to time and using a non-pleated bellows with some kind of external system of loops and poles to keep the bellows out of the light path.
I hope this helps.

[Jody_S]

An inexpensive changing bag (the kind that looks like a T-shirt with a zipper at the bottom) could easily be fashioned into a bag bellows. Something like the fiberglass supports from a small soft box could keep it out of the optical path.

[Colin Graham]

Back Again,

Then there was that forum link. It was like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch without the humour,
"Yes it is."
"No it isn't."
"Yes it is!"
"No it isn't!"
"Yes it is!"
And so forth. A teeny bit tiresome and pedantic. And Yes you are right, horses for courses. There was more I wanted to note dfown that I thought of yesterday but............That was yesterday and I am droning on, so.........

Anyone else with ideas?

Tim



.

That thread was a mess, but in my defense the link to the info about making a bag bellows was in the very first post of that thread. The rest of the thread is strictly for volunteers.

[mit nitram]

Hi Again,

Where shall I start. Well, looks like I didn't send my last post (again, Ooops), so LabRat I know the materials are going to cost me, but it is the labour (note spelling, the correct way! Ha ha.) cost where the saving is made and $100 is still a lot of money for me.

Then Fr. Mark, so much to say and quite right.

Now Jody S. Yes very inexpensive route.

If fact everybody is right I don't think I disagree with anything, but the main reason for making bellows? Some of you may have missed the point.

Doing it yourself is very satisfying.
Cost saving.
But the main reason, to have a go!

To have a go. Yes I might fail but I can try again (and watch a few more vids online), to have a go, though. Man is a great explorer and adventurer, we gain knowledge doing these "silly" things.

Have fun.

Bye for now.

[mit nitram]

Don't take offense, Colin, just having laugh (trying to. Hand bags dear, hand bags).and it was a good link.

[mit nitram]

P.S.

I have just dug out a book-

Developing
C.I. Jacobson & R.E. Jacobson
18th revised edition
A Focal Manual of Photo-Technique
Focal Press Ltd
ISBN 0 240 44770 0

Full of recipes for developers and such like.

[John Layton]

Won't something shiny inside just introduce possibly unwanted reflections? (more food for thought to "reflect" upon as you indulge in those cakes!). Am curious...just what is a pontefract cake?

[mit nitram]

I've given shiny stuff on the inside more thought. Light would be scattered everywhere but where it was needed, the film plane. You don't want anything interfering with the rays of light travelling towards it, the film plane that is.

Pontefract cakes are liquorice sweets, Wikipedia has a decent article for a change.

[Yorkie]

Won't something shiny inside just introduce possibly unwanted reflections? (more food for thought to "reflect" upon as you indulge in those cakes!). Am curious...just what is a pontefract cake?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontefract_cake

[mit nitram]

Nice one, Yorkie.

[martiansea]

Resurrecting a somewhat old thread... I know there's been several threads on this topic, and I've browsed what I found... I'm going to attempt making a new bellows for my Seneca Improved View 8x10 and so of course I'm curious what is a good fabric to use. The Thorlabs BK-5 looks like the choice for total light blocking blackout, but people have expressed reservations about possibly the interior being too shiny, etc...
Someone in one of the threads mentioned bookbinding cloth as a possibility. So I went to my local bookbinder's resource, Talas, and I think there is some very good possibilities with this particular one for the interior: https://www.talasonline.com/Laval-Bookcloth?quantity=1&laval=3
choose the Carbon Black one. Flocked velour black is always a good choice for inside a camera... I ordered a sample swatch book of this one, as well as sample swatches of several others that seem like attractive possibilities for the exterior cloth. So, we'll see. From what I read in other threads, apart from opacity, the thickness of the cloth is important depending on how tight the bellows need to fold up, so this is something I will be taking into account when I judge the swatches.
I had thought this might be a great choice for the exterior: https://www.talasonline.com/Bonded-Leather but a review mentions it being specifically difficult to fold for a bellows, so maybe that's not such a good choice after all. I'm thinking I may end up with the velour for the interior with the BK-5 for the exterior, but who knows, maybe that velour is already quite opaque and I can get away with a more pedestrian (and colorful!) bookbinding cloth for the exterior. Anyway, we'll see what properties the swatches reveal. I just hope they aren't too thick.

[Jim C.]

Anything flocked would be a terrible choice for bellows interior, flocking is a electrostatic process of applying very short fibers
onto a surface coated with a flexible 'glue', the chance of the fibers shedding over time from the folds is a great one since
the fibers are rubbing against each other as bellows are opened and closed.
I'd steer clear of bonded leather, it's the luncheon loaf of leathers, it's too thick, if you want to use leather for the outer
covering of your bellows Columbia Organ Leathers (https://www.columbiaorgan.com/columbia-leather-home/) is a good place to look at, or for that matter any place that supplies
pneumatic organ restoration supplies.

[martiansea]

I see your point about the flocking potentially wearing off, but I'm still curious about this particular fabric, since it's intended for high-wearing exterior use. I'll make an effort to test its durability and judge from there.
Real leather is an attractive possibility, thanks for that link, but I worry that with a bellows this large it may be difficult to get a continuous piece large enough? I'm just wary of the actual dimensions of the piece working out for this. Giving an area in ft2 seems meaningless considering that area needs to fit to a specific dimension. I wonder what kind of leather was commonly used for very long bellows in the past, what animal it was from?
The tip I saw to use Yupo for the ribs is brilliant. Definitely going to do that. I was already thinking any kind of stiff paper or cardstock would be a bad idea for long-term durability - look at all those old bellows with ruined paper ribs.

[Jim C.]

As you said, that flocked material is for exterior use, using it as a bellows liner is probably not going to
end well after all that work, that's just my opinion. Talas does not mention how thick the material is,
but flock fibers are electrostatically applied and the fibers are perpendicular to the surface, that adds thickness.
You can always contact Talas to see if they can give you a thickness measurement before spending any money.

In regards to getting leather skins large enough to do one 8x10 bellows I guess it depends on the
how big the animal was certainly not goat, cow ?
The remnants of my 2D bellows show that the skin was big enough to cover 3 sides of the bellows and
the fourth side was a separate panel, there is a distinct lap line showing it.
If you have the old Seneca bellows you should examine it for signs of how many pieces were used to cover.
Making a flat paper pattern would help in sizing the skin, you could send that to potential supplier to see if they
can size a skin based off your pattern.

Never heard of Yupo, but a cursory look seems like it's polyethylene 'paper' , it's got my interest.
There's nothing wrong with card stock for stiffener ribs, all those old bellows you mention are 50-100+ years old ?
Aside from age, neglect and mishandling the cardboard ribs can hold up quite well.

[martiansea]

Yupo is interesting stuff. Thin plastic sheets with a slight bit of texture for painting on. It's popular for people to do psychedelic abstract paintings with alcohol ink on it. I experimented with it a bit for gum printing, and it can work well if it is suitably prepared with some textured sizing - the gum the falls right off otherwise. I've seen people using it for carbon printing support tissues as well.

I checked the original Seneca bellows. Appears to be a single piece of leather; only see one seam along the bottom side. Unless it's fake leather? I dunno if that was a thing yet at the time it was made...camera is likely from early 1920's-ish. It's a tapered bellows, so perhaps an odd-shaped skin works with it. But honestly, finding a suitable piece of leather seems like too much trouble for this. Maybe I'll save that idea for a smaller one.
My swatches from Talas should be arriving soon.

[martiansea]

Received the swatches today. It appears the flocked black "Laval" doesn't block light very well at all. It does better than the other bookcloths, but the others are positively porous. So, that seems like a bust either way. Glad I got swatches. But some of the bookcloths are very attractive The "Duo" ones especially look really cool. If I used something completely blocking for the interior, maybe I could use one of the attractive bookcloths for the exterior.
I was looking at the page for the Thorlabs BK5 and found they also have self adhesive black flocked paper (BFP1) that "Does Not Shed Dust or Lint." Thinking about it. I'm of the mind that the interior must be as nonreflective as possible, especially considering how long it is.
I'm going to the local fabric store tomorrow and see what they have, maybe I'll get lucky and not have to order anything. Would be a pleasant surprise.
Close to just buying one ready made, but I'd really like to DIY this rebuild as much as possible, for the experience of it.

[martiansea]

Very pleasant surprise indeed. I went to the fabric store and found something that seems perfect. It's a fake leather "pleather" fabric made of polyester and spandex. It's very thin, slightly stretchy and absolutely blocks out light excellently. The brand is Yaya Han and the material is called YH 4-Way Pleather Black. It's 54" wide and was about $16/yd.
213317
It looks and feels very much like the material on the exterior of my Cambo's bellows.
I got some stiffer "linen-like" black cloth to use for the interior. Hopefully that will keep it from being too saggy.
Next step is to experiment with gluing some scraps together to test out this glue I got. It's Loctite brand professional spray adhesive. I got it because it's what the lady at the store recommended would be the best choice for gluing the pleather. We'll find out.

[pacviewcam]

Some years ago I used to be able to buy blackout cloth from Freestyle Photo. Sad to say, they had to stop carrying it when the minimum order was changed to a container load -- you know, those containers that they load full of stuff and then carry on ships and semi trucks.

That stuff was .008" thick, and just thin enough; any thicker would have been too thick.

Then, I discovered on here someone recommending the Thorlabs stuff. It measures in at .005" thick and is really great. Use card stock for ribs. If you can get Weldwood contact cement (the toxic stuff, not waterbase) use that to glue the outer layer of Thorlabs material to the bellows. Barge contact cement works well too, available from shoe repair and/or leather suppliers.

I've never had a problem with light leaks from a single layer of the Thorlabs stuff.

For the liner (inner layer) I use cotton, the thinnest most flat black I can find. A good fabric store will have much to choose from. Bring your light meter and get the thinnest lowest-reflectance stuff they have.

Re Columbia Leather: I've often drooled over what they have, but the price is just too high for any large format bellows. I could see spending that much for a folding 120-film size camera, but for a view camera it'll break the bank.

I don't know how many bellows I've made, but doing so helped me make a living during a few recessions when I'd build the bellows for view cameras I was refurbishing to sell; would also sometimes build them to order.

The main thing is that the two fabric layers have to be thin enough to give you a good sharp crease, and all those folds have to compress into a very small space. So every thousandth of an inch makes a difference.

[Jim C.]

It looks and feels very much like the material on the exterior of my Cambo's bellows.
I got some stiffer "linen-like" black cloth to use for the interior. Hopefully that will keep it from being too saggy.
Next step is to experiment with gluing some scraps together to test out this glue I got. It's Loctite brand professional spray adhesive. I got it because it's what the lady at the store recommended would be the best choice for gluing the pleather. We'll find out.

As pacviewcam said, thickness matters and it's misleading when you go by 'feel', I'd recommend getting a cheap pair of digital machinist calipers
to measure what you're buying.


Some years ago I used to be able to buy blackout cloth from Freestyle Photo. Sad to say, they had to stop carrying it when the minimum order was changed to a container load -- you know, those containers that they load full of stuff and then carry on ships and semi trucks.

That stuff was .008" thick, and just thin enough; any thicker would have been too thick.

Then, I discovered on here someone recommending the Thorlabs stuff. It measures in at .005" thick and is really great. Use card stock for ribs. If you can get Weldwood contact cement (the toxic stuff, not waterbase) use that to glue the outer layer of Thorlabs material to the bellows. Barge contact cement works well too, available from shoe repair and/or leather suppliers.

I've never had a problem with light leaks from a single layer of the Thorlabs stuff.

For the liner (inner layer) I use cotton, the thinnest most flat black I can find. A good fabric store will have much to choose from. Bring your light meter and get the thinnest lowest-reflectance stuff they have.

Re Columbia Leather: I've often drooled over what they have, but the price is just too high for any large format bellows. I could see spending that much for a folding 120-film size camera, but for a view camera it'll break the bank.

I don't know how many bellows I've made, but doing so helped me make a living during a few recessions when I'd build the bellows for view cameras I was refurbishing to sell; would also sometimes build them to order.

The main thing is that the two fabric layers have to be thin enough to give you a good sharp crease, and all those folds have to compress into a very small space. So every thousandth of an inch makes a difference.

I've ordered leather from Columbia for a non bellows related project and I was very impressed at the quality of the leather,
years ago while searching for materials for bellows and focal plane shutters, I found an almost exact match for the interior
lining and for focal plane shutters, it was pneumatic bellows cloth for player pianos, .008 thick rubberized cotton fabric and as I recall
it was 50" wide and sold by the yard. Unfortunately the vendor went out of business, but there are other vendors that sell a nylon cloth version.

Never had luck with any of the cements you mentioned with the BK-5, they never survived my peel test, the only one that did was a vinyl cement ( HH-66, RH Products )

[Dan Dozer]

I have had a lot of success with the inner layer using drapery black out material and thin black Egyptian cotton on the exterior (looks really nice). I could only find the drapery fabric in white (it is kind of like coated fabric) so I just used some flat black paint to paint the interior surface and it worked very well.

I tried other things from the fabric store that was like imitation leather. Some of it seemed thin enough but I couldn't get the creases to form well enough.

[Failagogy]

BK5 is unobtanium at the moment. Are there any recommended alternatives?

[Jim C.]

No affiliation, search for ebay seller - dcramey

They have synthetic pnematic bellows cloth, they have two kinds, one is heavy duty which
based on their listing is a pretty close match to what I ordered years ago from Player Piano Co.

[Failagogy]

No affiliation, search for ebay seller - dcramey

They have synthetic pnematic bellows cloth, they have two kinds, one is heavy duty which
based on their listing is a pretty close match to what I ordered years ago from Player Piano Co.

At $26 a yard, I'll wait for the BK5!

https://dcramey.com/Supplies2.html

[Dan Miller]

No affiliation, search for ebay seller - dcramey

They have synthetic pnematic bellows cloth, they have two kinds, one is heavy duty which
based on their listing is a pretty close match to what I ordered years ago from Player Piano Co.

I emailed the seller and the pneumatic bellows cloth is not light-tight.

[Jim C.]

A pity if it isn't light tight, older versions I ordered were.
I'll have to order some of this recent synthetic pneumatic cloth to see for myself.

[Failagogy]

The rubberized nylon I bought from Seattle Fabrics isn't light-tight. Even with two layers, I can see a speedlite through it plainly.

Anyone got some spare BK5?