Fire extinguisher recommendation

[gary892]

I would like to hear your fire extinguisher recommendations for use in a home darkroom.
I process film and silver gelatin prints. Looking to process platinum & palladium images sometime in the future.

Is the one that Costco sells acceptable? It is a general purpose fire extinguisher.

Thanks

Gary

[jp]

I don't have one in my darkroom; they are normal abc ones elsewhere in the house.

If I felt like I needed one in the darkroom, it would probably be a clean agent type...
The extra $150-200 for it would be gold compared to the cleanup mess a normal one makes. Co2, halotron, h3r, halon, etc..

[MusicalPhotog]

So, might be a dumb question... I didn't think there was anything reactive enough to necessitate the presence of a fire extinguisher in your garden-variety darkroom. Is this naive thinking on my part?

[Drew Wiley]

I have at least 3 in my combined darkroom/shop, ordinary ABC type. Common sense. They're cheap enough. But they're also required by the Fire Dept, who has the right of inspection due to my business license.

[MusicalPhotog]

I have at least 3 in my combined darkroom/shop, ordinary ABC type. Common sense. They're cheap enough. But they're also required by the Fire Dept, who has the right of inspection due to my business license.

Yes, from a business standpoint, I can certainly understand the need; especially in compliance with local fire codes. But I, like many others here, have just a home darkroom setup. So I'm wondering if there is something I'm overlooking in my darkroom, (aside from the obvious electrical devices), that may justify the need for a fire extinguisher?

[John Kasaian]

I'd avoid using Halon in closed spaces like in a darkroom.

[Drew Wiley]

Strong oxidants like potassium permanganate or sodium hydroxide, found in numerous darkrooms, can generate intense heat and start fires. Alcohol, acetone, and especially ether combust easily. Wiring can corrode in humid conditions, especially aluminum wire, and start fires. Many multi-outlet strip devices are substandard. Most non-industrial lithium batteries and chargers are a distinct risk. Drymount presses, hot enlarger heads too close to a wall or ceiling, etc.

[John Kasaian]

Strong oxidants like potassium permanganate or sodium hydroxide, found in numerous darkrooms, can generate intense heat and start fires. Alcohol, acetone, and especially ether combust easily. Wiring can corrode in humid conditions, especially aluminum wire, and start fires. Many multi-outlet strip devices are substandard. Most non-industrial lithium batteries and chargers are a distinct risk. Drymount presses, hot enlarger heads too close to a wall or ceiling, etc.

Ansel Adams' dark room in Yosemite burned down IIRC. I don't recollect the cause of the fire, but certainly the possibility should be a concern.

[Drew Wiley]

Art space fires are a plague around here. They tend to get huge fast. You have to be aware of what your neighbors are doing too, just like with forest fires. Right now an infamous local court case is still going on, where over 30 people died in a converted warehouse art venue fire. Artistes can be extremely careless about safety issues.

[Tin Can]

CALL 911 FIRST!

Yell for help.

Very few people have a fire extinguisher. Get at least 2 "First Alert Heavy Duty Fire Extinguisher" Very good deal. Try one outside on a fire. Then get it refilled. Right away.

In a darkroom most of us have an easily reached water hose. Not much help...

I always have 3 plastic 1/2 gallon beakers filled with fresh water in the sink. I once poured 2 gallons of water over my head, to decontaminate, but that topic is now banned.

Not for fire, but as eyewash, or skin wash or...

Any fire extinguisher should be just outside the darkroom at the door, ready to grab use and back away. Plan escape routes. Know when to give up.

I mount my electrical plugs and switches chest high on the walls. None within reach of the sink.

Install a GFCI Breaker at the house panel for the entire DR. Don't use another in the room. Test it often.

I never need to plug or unplug anything in my darkroom while using it.

Wear sturdy work shoes with good wet traction.

Practice anything done in 100% dark several times in light. Mark stations and handholds with luminus darkroom tape. Very helpful.

I am sure I forgot something. I have plenty of fire experience. Trained by pros on large fires every year for a long time.

2 old friends burned in their Duluth home as the smoke knocked them out first.

I hate fire, but have walked in it.

[MusicalPhotog]

All certainly good information. Thanks. I now understand that I develop film in a death trap! :-D

[Bob Salomon]

Ansel Adams' dark room in Yosemite burned down IIRC. I don't recollect the cause of the fire, but certainly the possibility should be a concern.

When my daughter got married we had Monte Zucker and Clay Bannister photograph the wedding. They did a hell of a job!
However we never got any prints, only proofs. We lived in N NJ and their studio was in Silver Springs, MD.

The day after we received the proofs his studio burned down, everything was lost, including the negatives!

A few days later in NJ another Master Photographers studio also burned down as did a few others.

Turned out that they all used McDonalds sprays in a spray booth to finish their prints. The sprays left a flammable residue inside the spray booths and the exhaust fan shorted out setting the residue on fire which burned down the studios. Most of the fires occurred at night when the studios were closed so no one was harmed but an awful lot of high end portraits, weddings, bar Mitzvahs photographs were lost!

[Drew Wiley]

Lacquers! We had explosions in the neighborhood that caused a bigger mess in the warehouses than our strongest earthquakes. What lacquers do to the brain over time is even worse. Flammable lacquers are illegal for pro cabinet shop use; but there's still a lot of amateur and bootleg use of them. It can be suicide without explosion-proof equipment. At one point they were being made just three blocks away. It felt like the start of a nuclear war. Got outdoors and saw a huge cloud. A rail tanker car of lacquer thinner had totally vaporized, along with the guy pumping it. But almost miraculously, his cigarette lighter was found on the ground next to the tracks. Photo lacquer is a bit different, butyl acetate instead of nitrocellulose, but equally nasty. And yes, I do remember when Monty Zucker had to start over after the fire.

[Bob Salomon]

Lacquers! We had explosions in the neighborhood that caused a bigger mess in the warehouses than our strongest earthquakes. What lacquers do to the brain over time is even worse. Flammable lacquers are illegal for pro cabinet shop use; but there's still a lot of amateur and bootleg use of them. It can be suicide without explosion-proof equipment. At one point they were being made just three blocks away. It felt like the start of a nuclear war. Got outdoors and saw a huge cloud. A rail tanker car of lacquer thinner had totally vaporized, along with the guy pumping it. But almost miraculously, his cigarette lighter was found on the ground next to the tracks. Photo lacquer is a bit different, butyl acetate instead of nitrocellulose, but equally nasty. And yes, I do remember when Monty Zucker had to start over after the fire.

Back in the very early 60s i partitioned off my garage. Into a wet area, a,drye area, a laundry room and area for garden and yard tools. For a sink I got a 4x9’ sheet of ½” exterior plywood which let me make a 8’ sink wide enough for my largest trays and a small Pako print dryer. I covered all services of the sink with several layers of fibre glass, cut a hole for drain And rain the supply lines for hot and cold across the tile back stop on the wall, I was heating some chemicals in A Paterson graduate with an aquarium immersion heater. It happened to be Thanksgiving and my wife invited friends over and was cooking a large turkey.
After we finished the turkee some friends wanted to see the darkroom and the dry room. They were in the basement and I flicked the fluorescent lights on by the switch at,the head of the stairs, looked,down the staircase,and we could only see a solid wall of grey. This was confusing as the staircase was painted white and the walls were paneled in a very light wood.
We eventually figured out that we were looking at a solid wall of smoke, from the desk room. Called the fire department and they came with their big exhaust fans that cleared it out real fast.

Turned out that the Immersion heater was heating water in a Paterson graduate, the water evaporated a the heater set the plastic graduate on fire. The fire caught some of the plexiglass a light which was directly under the joint in the hot a cold water supply on the wall above the sink. A solder joint was directly above the burning graduate which melted, the solder,sell in the cold,water,pipe,and sprinkled,on the fire and put it out but created a huge cloud of smoke!

[Leszek Vogt]

I think you should be fine with 2A-10B,C ("low hazard"), but you can up yer game and use 3A,40B,C.....rated as "moderate hazard". My personal wisdom comes largely from AF....do it safely and you'll almost never need the FD to respond.

Les

[Tin Can]

I worked in 6 darkroom sized rooms.

Each room had huge negative pressure when active. Roof exhaust.

We had spark, heat rise and temp rise triggers which triggered loud sirens.

For fire suppression, each room had individual large Halon auto dump that triggered 20 seconds after the siren. All ventaations also stopped with shutters closed. Don't be in there. Get out asap.

As backup, we had 180 degree F auto water sprinklers ceiling mounted fed by a huge water tower. No way to turn that off quickly.

Third was hallway hand held fire extinguishers, 4 for every room, so 24 in a 50 foot hallway. Purple K, ABC and CO2.

The entire set of rooms was built outside the last wall of the factory, in a separate container.

10 feet away was 4000 gallons of flammable liquids.

My favorite workplace.

We did have fires.

I often worked alone for 12 hours.

No photography allowed.

[Alan Klein]

All great ideas above. I don;t have a darkroom. But i keep extinguishers (ABC) adjacent to my kitchen and another in the garage by the roll-up door. The men's club I belong to which include members from my 55+ community went to the local fire department's training grounds for a tour. They gave us fire extinguishers to practice on. It's good to try one of them out before you actually need it. Here's the video I took of our tour. The practice section is at 2:24.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcmwLSiS-as

[Alan Klein]

By the way, my Kidde fire extinguishers were recalled. All the plastic top ones had problems going on for over 25 years. Check yours out with the manufacturer. Kidde replaced mine for free.

[Drew Wiley]

Not a single one of what we typically call fire extinguishers, like we'd buy in a hardware store or at a home center or at Costco, would pass an industrial inspection. Those have to be specified and certified for the particular space, and monitored on a routine schedule by a professional service, often in conjunction with alarm and sprinkler inspections. But our own inexpensive extinguishers do have gauges which should be checked from time to time to make sure they haven't lost pressure.

[Alan Klein]

Not a single one of what we typically call fire extinguishers, like we'd buy in a hardware store or at a home center or at Costco, would pass an industrial inspection. Those have to be specified and certified for the particular space, and monitored on a routine schedule by a professional service, often in conjunction with alarm and sprinkler inspections. But our own inexpensive extinguishers do have gauges which should be checked from time to time to make sure they haven't lost pressure.

Professional services don't do more than check the gages and put a label on the extinguisher certifying it was inspected. Even home use extinguishers are "approved" by CSA or UL. So as long as the gages show normal pressure, you ought to be OK for use. Certainly a lot better than having no extinguishers around.

[Drew Wiley]

I don't know what Fire Marshalls expect where you are, Alan; but we had to flush and have inspected the entire sprinkler system twice a year for three whole city blocks of warehousing and offices, and I know darn well what is involved with extinguishers. Ironically, just after I retired they had an indoor fire, probably caused by an overloaded outlet strip, and nearly all the damage was due to the sprinkler system ruining millions of dollars of inventory. It was really the product packaging that was most damaged, so the insurance company bought all of that inventory and batch sold it to liquidators, and by now the building involved has been beautifully remodeled. But they sure didn't get a bargain replacing us cranky old timers with cheaper help. I would have given em hell over using outlet strips at all. We used to hard wire everything, never had a fire. But nearly two entire adjacent blocks - one on each side - burned down while I was still there - a stoner art colony on one side, and an idiot,oily-rag furniture maker on the other. Then there was the illegal wax candle factory in a warehouse loft a few years before - when that burned it sure was the brightest candle anywhere. It could be seen for 50 miles. But I don't believe something just because it's UL labeled. There's tons of fraud in that racket. I've opened up UL listed outlet strips where the wiring was connected with masking tape. Some of these UL labs put million of dangerous products made in China straight through without even checking them. It's called bribes. Then extremely safe German gear gets put on the backburner, sometimes for years, because they refuse to bribe. I know that game inside out. Fraudulent labeling is also rampant. What can I say in this case? Just don't buy a conspicuously cheap extinguisher, which even looks like a toy.

[LabRat]

One type to beware of is halon systems... If someone is in an enclosed space and the gas is let out, it completely removes oxygen to put out a fire, but leaves NO air to breathe for anyone...

My brother is a tugboat captain, and during fire drills, all hands have to accounted for before releasing halon or they sufficate instantly...

Steve K

[Paul Coy]

I would like to hear your fire extinguisher recommendations for use in a home darkroom.
I process film and silver gelatin prints. Looking to process platinum & palladium images sometime in the future.

Is the one that Costco sells acceptable? It is a general purpose fire extinguisher.

Thanks


I use these:
https://consumers.fireade.com/products/

They don't create a mess after discharge..

Gary

[John Kasaian]

A real fire extinguisher dealer won't even bother to recharge cheap big box fire extinguishers.
When I was a janitor in an apartment house we had to have fire extinguishers inspected every year.
I asked the guy about the little cheapie I kept in my VW Beetle when the gauge went from green to yellow and he just laughed.
When I was flying, halon was considered the ticket for cockpit fires, but using a halon in an enclosed cockpit will kill you!

Now I'll only buy an extinguisher I know I can get inspected and if needed, recharged.

[Tin Can]

Pros and cons of fire extinguisher types

https://www.fireproductsdirect.ie/advice-centre/pros-and-cons-of-fire-extinguisher-types/

[MartinP]

At least in Europe, aren't halon based systems now illegal, except for enclosed compartments (like engine-bays etc) ??

Any powder based extinguisher will make optical gear pretty much uncleanable for ever. I have a five litre and a three litre foam extinguisher. They can be used on most sorts of domestic/home-darkroom fires and can be cleaned up (eventually). Of course, it is better to avoid having a fire in the first place, so careful design is wisest.

[Joe O'Hara]

I agree with MartinP. The usual big-box residential-type extinguishers that you have to show you have to get a certificate of occupancy around here are all powder-type.
They will leave a mess of the kind you don't want to have in a place where film and negatives are being handled.

If there's a choice, carbon dioxide (CO2) extinguishers would be best for a darkroom. No residue. CO2 is denser than air, so it will settle down to the floor
when deployed. In the quantities available in a hand-held extinguisher, it's unlikely to pile up high enough to suffocate you. They will be more expensive
than the powder kind. They work on everything (except for lithium batteries, but nothing else does either).

If you can possibly arrange it, your darkroom should have two exits. Fire safety 101.

[HMG]

By the way, my Kidde fire extinguishers were recalled. All the plastic top ones had problems going on for over 25 years. Check yours out with the manufacturer. Kidde replaced mine for free.

Not all their plastic topped ones were included in the recall (but all the ones in the recall were the plastic topped ones). I had 2 that appeared identical but with different model numbers. One was recalled; the other wasn't.

Kidde has a website where you can enter the model # of your fire extinguisher and find out if it's included.

[Alan Klein]

Not all their plastic topped ones were included in the recall (but all the ones in the recall were the plastic topped ones). I had 2 that appeared identical but with different model numbers. One was recalled; the other wasn't.

Kidde has a website where you can enter the model # of your fire extinguisher and find out if it's included.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Drew Wiley]

If something has to be recalled, 90% of the time it means it was either false labeled or never genuinely inspected to begin with. Made in China pretty much says it all. So does where those kind of cheapo options are typically sold. You don't get something for nothing.

[Fred L]

I think when it comes to fire suppression, a good household extinguisher would do fine as everything else would be secondary to safety. As mentioned before, I'd go with ABC type. I'd also go for a good sized one vs the small ones. Not sure what issues pt/pd would present during a fire scenario.

[LabRat]

Oh yea, and since there is running water in the lab, couldn't you just hose it down???

Just saying...

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, hose it down and risk getting electrocuted. Or if there's plastic pipe supplying the water, maybe it got burned through already. Or maybe there's some nasty chemicals in use that water will disperse in a hazardous manner.

[HMG]

If something has to be recalled, 90% of the time it means it was either false labeled or never genuinely inspected to begin with. Made in China pretty much says it all. So does where those kind of cheapo options are typically sold. You don't get something for nothing.

First, the reason for the recall is: "The fire extinguishers can become clogged or require excessive force to discharge and can fail to activate during a fire emergency. In addition, the nozzle can detach with enough force to pose an impact hazard."

I assume that UL and CSA inspection is not every unit, but rather the design and a sample at the time of inspection. It's up to the manufacture to maintain those standards; including the parts and materials provided by suppliers wherever they may be located. Clearly, Kidde did not. Was this due to the pressure of trying to meet a $10 retail price point? We don't know but it's a reasonable assumption.

I have some fire extinguishers bought in the 70s that are (I believe) commercial quality. I've wondered if it makes sense to have those re-certified and filled rather than buy new homeowner ones. Perhaps I have my answer.

[Drew Wiley]

I do know. I could write a book about these kinds of issues. Many imported products are made in the tens of thousands at a time, yet are NEVER inspected at either the point of manufacture or here. Quite a few are not even tested for functionality at the prototyping stage. They're recalled only after the fact, when a widespread problem is already evident. Quite a number of companies have multiple tiers of manufacture, depending where the specific items are intended to be sold. The big boxes generally want trash, even demand it. I won't go into details; but I was a professional buyer for over forty years and made it my job to secure legit items and hold manufacturers accountable. Most fines for false labeling are a tiny slap on the wrist compared to the staggering amounts of money made flooding the country with cheap products. Ten bucks will buy you a deluxe hamburger, but not a realistic fire extinguisher.

[Tin Can]

PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHER -
ANNUAL INSPECTION / MAINTENANCE
CERTIFICATION TRAINING (https://nctc.fws.gov/courses/programs/safety/fireext/FWS%20Fire%20Extinguisher%20Inspection%20Training.pdf)

[MartinP]

Further reading (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=2ahUKEwiszbf3uuLjAhVCIVAKHc9tB24QFjALegQIBBAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Faxaxl.com%2F-%2Fmedia%2Fgaps%2Fd13____0.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1F31PhWZIQB2l7XpzPrx_F) regarding use of dry-chemical extinguishers in sensitive areas.

As well as chemical secondary effects, furnishings and carpeting will need to be replaced. Yes, that's better than burning to death or (more likely) dying from smoke and fumes but there are alternatives available which are perhaps more suitable, except possibly for price.

[Tin Can]

The link is bad

[MartinP]

The link is bad

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