Has anyone tried or have opinions on the Poilot PL810 sheet film reel and P2550 tank?

[Tim V]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has experience with or an opinion on the Poilot PL810 8x10sheet film processing reel with P2550 Multitank5 dev tank combo, which can be bought on eBay:

LINK (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Poilot-PL810-8x10sheet-film-processing-reel-with-P2550-Multitank5-dev-tank-combo-/232439821679?_ul=NZ)

It looks like a direct knockoff of the CatLabs reel and Jobo tank. I found another link on this forum to a discussion around a product that sounds the same as this, but the listing has expired and the product thumbnail looks different, so I'm not sure:

LINK TO THREAD (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?141265-CL81-alternative&highlight=CL81)

I'm fine to buy the Cat Labs version–and support the original product–but I've read other reviews of the CL81 scratching negatives which scares me, so I assume that might be the same for this product. Haven't even looked into the price difference yet for the tank, reel and roller base, but think this version looks attractive enough on that front.

My problem at the moment is that I'm tray processing 8x10" negatives one at a time in PMK and things are taking me ages. I know I could practice doing multiple sheets at a time, but to be honest I'm not confident in that as every time I've attempted it on practice sheets I've made a hash of it. In a perfect world I'd but a Jobo expert 3005 drum and roller base, but that's out of my league for the time being, so exploring other daylight tank options that can do a minimum of 3 sheets at a time and obviously not scratch the film. It's important to me that I go with an ultra-reliable option and that it works flawlessly with pyro developers; I'm happy to change to Pyrocat-HD or something similar if PMK is not suited to roller processing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tim

[Michael E]

I have bought the 8x10" and 5x7" reels and used them in my JOBO drum. They seem well made, but I have not used them enough to judge them competently. One thing I have noticed: I was hoping to use them with double-sided x-ray film, but the reel leaves marks on the outer side of the film (not a problem with single-sided film, of course).

[Josh C]

This looks like a cheaper copy of the catlabs one, interested to see if others have used it and if its worth it

[Tim V]

Yet another version, anyone tried?

https://realfilmreel.bigcartel.com/product/8x10-film-holder-spiral-reel-for-jobo-2800-2500-multitank-system-up-to-4-sheets

[Charles S]

I ordered one. Should arrive on Monday and I'll test and report back next week

[Tim V]

Great, thanks! Looking forward to hearing what it's like.

What type of process will you be using it for?


I ordered one. Should arrive on Monday and I'll test and report back next week

[Charles S]

Since last week I use one bath on Foma 100, in a Jobo 2830 on a Durst Comot for continuous agitation. I have 5 film holders so I often end up with 10 sheets to develop. The internal spool thingie allows me to go from 2 to 4 sheets a cycle, so it is more efficient.

The obvious questions are:

1) What happens when the tank rotates, will the thingie rotate as well
2) Is there enough spacing between the sheets to get the anti-halation layer off. Currently I do 3 pre-wash baths of a minute each, with 4 sheets, Do I need to double it
3) I currently use 100ml chems for 2 sheets, will it be enough for 4, or do I need to double the quantity ?
4) Is there enough spacing to get the chems spread enough so that they work as per the documented times or do I need to extend
5) Do I need to inverse rotation direction periodically or can I just keep it moving in one direction as I do currently
6) The monobath solution is for 8 minutes irrespective of the film. Can I mix films in the tank ?
7) Does it work for 8x10 prints as well ?

That's what i can think of for the moment. Will let you know what happens

[Tim V]

The thing that freaks me out about this system is scratching, especially when the emulsion gets soft and possibly rubs against the reel. If this happens, it would protrude quite far into the film by the looks of things.

It's a hard one, because I know ultimately I want a Jobo 3005, but can only afford to spend a 1/4 the money, at least for the foreseeable future.

[minh0204]

A word of warning: These Poilot tanks (also Osiris, exactly the same tank) are not fully compatible with Jobo. The red locking ring on all of the Chinese tanks are slightly undersized compared to Jobo's, so the Chinese lids won't fit properly on a Jobo tank.



The thing that freaks me out about this system is scratching, especially when the emulsion gets soft and possibly rubs against the reel. If this happens, it would protrude quite far into the film by the looks of things.

It's a hard one, because I know ultimately I want a Jobo 3005, but can only afford to spend a 1/4 the money, at least for the foreseeable future.

Scratching is really not a big problem - modern emulsion are tough (unless you like to do things like reversal dev). The 30XX tanks needs much bigger, more expensive machines.

[Tim V]

Thanks for chiming in.

I've read a lot of people say, granted in old threads, that these reels like the Catlabs CL81 design tend to scratch the emulation beyond the film holder rebate. As I contact print, these reports scare me.

I do hope other people with positive experience with regards to this speak up, as it's a heck of a lot cheaper to go this way than the 3005.

For reference, I'd want to use it on a roller base (manual) preferably with PMK or PyrocatHD, the latter of which I've not tried but hear is better for roller development.

I wonder if people developing this way vary the direction of the rolling?

With regard to this, I read somewhere that some people reported streaking down the middle of their sheets due surge / wake of dev as it is diverted around the central clip during rolling. Can anyone else advise on this?

I also note that the French version linked to above is capable of 4 films per reel, rather than the 3 of the Catlabs version. Anyone see an issue with this if the appropriate amount of chemistry is used?

Thanks!

Tim

[Charles S]

So as promised, I am reporting back after putting the first batch of 4 sheets through.

The main outtakes are as follows (blinding obvious stuff, I suppose):

1) I found putting the sheets on the spool difficult. This may improve with practice of course, so I would recommend to anyone doing it for the first time to first do some practice runs

2) The spool does not fit in the Durst 2830 tank if you want the chemicals cups attached to the lid. You will need a longer tank. Luckily I have one and was even able to locate it in the dark

3) The tank with the spool needs a lot more chemicals to cover all the sheets, compared to the 2 sheets on opposite sides of the tank that I used previously. I doubled the quantity to 200ml, but it was not enough, all 4 sheets were only partly developed, with the emulsion still on all the sheets for half of the surface.

4) It needs a lot more pre-wash to get the halation layer off with 4 sheets than with 2 (duh), so 5 cycles of 250ml water for a couple of minutes, so the net time gain is debatable.

All-in all, I have the spool, so I will give it another attempt after doing more practice runs and measuring how much liquid I need in the tank, but I don't think it is a slam-dunk improvement over what i was doing before,

That's all for now :-(

[Tim V]

Sounds like it might get better with practice and patience to hone technique? Like you, I wonder if it's worth the money and effort. The Jobo expert drum is massive money, but probably money wisely spent in the long run. I wish there was a cheaper magic bullet!

[Charles S]

Saw an expert drum on a german LF forum for 400Eur, so it's a lot more, but LF is not for the faint of heart or wallet.
I am not there yet to pull the trigger.

[minh0204]

For Foma don't need a lot of pre washes; the anti halation will also wash off during final rinse/wash. Also, developers are cheap compared to film, 200ml for 4 sheets (equiv. to 4x 35mm rolls) seems very low.

You can submerge the tank and with the spool in a bath of water horizontally until the inner most sheet is fully submerged, then close the lid to trap the water inside. Measure how much liquid is in the tank and add about 10%, that'd be the minimum chem required to fully cover the sheets. For example I did a test on my tiny Jobo 1520 and found that I only need 150ml to fully submerge one 120 roll (vs 240ml recommended by Jobo).

[Charles S]

the bath trick sounds good.
Currently I use the tank with the film against the inside of it (see pic), it is not recommended for film, but it works. There is very little space between the tank and the film, which is why I do the extensive pre-washing otherwise the blueish goop colors my chems. I suppose now that I am using one bath as a one shot it shouldn't matter. Because the film is against the inside of the tank, 100ml for 2 sheets of 8x10 and constant rotation is enough.

186520

[alfredian]

I have the CatLabs 8x10 reel, have yet to use it (no negs on hand). I have been using (2nd time tonight) the Poilot PL57 for some Ilford FP4. Today's run ended up with 2 negatives with scuffs/digs on the emulsion. Thought the digs were lint-dust and tried to rewash them of with Distilled Water, but no, by angled-light these are divots in the emulsion itself.

I've only been loading 4 of the 6 available slots - innermost & outermost ones, leaving the middle slots empty - tried loading them but couldn't get the film to stay, also distrust the gap-width between adjacent slots. So far, using 300mL of chemicals works fine (Rodinal 1:25).

What I really want is Paterson to make a "MOD75" - their MOD54-6 works just fine, in their full-capacity inversion cylinder. I really prefer rotary developing. I do my 8x10s so far in JOBO 2840 big drums. I can do 4x10s that way but the thinner-based Ilfords flop around more than Kodak's TX320.

So far out of 8 negatives done in the PL57 I have 2-3 usable negs plus one that can be cropped off at the bottom for a decent pond-scape. This sort of stuff will drive me to dip-tank hangers, etc. --alfredian

[Duolab123]

I have developed 5 sheets of black and white PAPER at a time. I used a Jobo 2830 tank, placed 2 sheets into the grooves of the tank, then loaded the Catlabs CL81 with 3 sheets, then gently slipped the reel into the tank. Worked great. Cost of real 8x10 sheet film being what it is, I've never tried this with sheet film.

I have used a 2830 for 2 sheets of Tri-X, a CL81 for 3 sheets and a 3005 for 5 sheets. The CL810 is the easiest to wash the film. I use IR goggles so I can load anything.

[Charles S]

I gave it another try with 4 sheets and 300ml of monobath. This time there was enough liquid for all 4 sheets, but one of them did not develop in parts. It seems that the way I use it the liquid does not get in between the sheets evenly.
Unless i find out through this thread how others are using it , I will put back in it's box for now

[bwlf]

There is now also another alternative 3D printed reel system for 4x5 and 8x10 film development in Paterson tanks, from Jeff at 20th Century Camera in WA, USA. I have not tried it yet but am especially tempted to, since the loading and unloading looks so easy and practically “spring” loaded in his Instagram video. Also the 6-sided base is interesting for stability and rotating the loading/unloading.

Photos of the TCC Quick load 4x5 6 sheet holder for Paterson
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwRL-TyAYCJ/

3D Graphic rendering of 8x10 version
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwIHyOPAxAG/
Video demo loading the 8x10
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwITSREA98a/

He only has the 4x5 one listed on his website currently though
https://20thcenturycamera.com/collections/all

https://www.instagram.com/tv/BxSsDfDAyN8/ (Post about video)
https://www.instagram.com/tv/BxSsDfDAyN8/ (May 10 demo loading 4x5)

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, that does look interesting. Hopefully a version for use in Jobo tanks will be forthcoming.

[Duolab123]

If you want a alternative to 3005, super cheap, find a clean old Beseler Color 11x14 drum. It will hold two sheets of 8x10 film, get a back and forth or see saw roller, or just roll around on a table top. I have 3005 tanks, so great. If you have a Jobo tank, core, and funnel type film lid the CL81 works very well. It's not 3D printed but machined plastic. I like the CL81 design, the scratching in the rebates is not an issue. Old SS film hangers left marks.

[Peter De Smidt]

I have a 3005. I’d like to easily do 2-sided xray in my jobo.

[Christopher Nisperos]

I tried the realfilmreel 4x5 reel just yesterday (NOTE: Therefore, this has nothing necessarily to do with the operation of their 8x10 reel).

In fact, I want to further preface my comments with a disclaimer in FAVOR of the manufacturer because I certainly don't want my sole and first experience with their product to end up torpedoing this small (tiny) manufacturer! So please remember this and take my comments, below, with a big grain of salt

OK, here goes:
It was a real bear to load [the 4x5 reel]. I had to finally jury-rig a loading-ramp-jig-thang and —even with that— I could only load 5 of the 6 slots .. and of those, two films were stuck together once I opened the tank.

Again (third effort to not hurt this company), this was my first time using the reel . plus, their website clearly says, "It takes a little practice to load this reel". However, I'm not a beginner at this and I can usually tweek the loading of many types of reels and frames, so it's pretty unusual for me to have this level of trouble.. I therefore think it would be wise of realfilmreel to at least create —and offer CHEAPLY— a loading aid, at least for their 4x5 reel.

Fourth disclaimer in their favor: Don't let this prevent you from trying their products...Perhaps the 5x7 and 8x10 reels are easier to load (they can't be more difficult than the 4x5!) and it could well be that I'm simply lame at it! :o)

Here's a link to their website as of today's date (Feb. 13, 2020): https://realfilmreel.bigcartel.com/products

Long Live Film!

Christopher

[Christopher Nisperos]

Yet another version, anyone tried?

https://realfilmreel.bigcartel.com/product/8x10-film-holder-spiral-reel-for-jobo-2800-2500-multitank-system-up-to-4-sheets

(Tim, I wrote this at post#23 and couldn't seem to delete it. Mr. Moderator, could you please delete that duplicate post?)

I tried the realfilmreel 4x5 reel just yesterday (NOTE: Therefore, this has nothing necessarily to do with the operation of their 8x10 reel).

In fact, I want to further preface my comments with a disclaimer in FAVOR of the manufacturer because I certainly don't want my sole and first experience with their product to end up torpedoing this small (tiny) manufacturer! So please remember this and take my comments, below, with a big grain of salt

OK, here goes:
It was a real bear to load [the 4x5 reel]. I had to finally jury-rig a loading-ramp-jig-thang and —even with that— I could only load 5 of the 6 slots .. and of those, two films were stuck together once I opened the tank.

Again (third effort to not hurt this company), this was my first time using the reel . plus, their website clearly says, "It takes a little practice to load this reel". However, I'm not a beginner at this and I can usually tweek the loading of many types of reels and frames, so it's pretty unusual for me to have this level of trouble.. I therefore think it would be wise of realfilmreel to at least create —and offer CHEAPLY— a loading aid, at least for their 4x5 reel.

Fourth disclaimer in their favor: Don't let this prevent you from trying their products...Perhaps the 5x7 and 8x10 reels are easier to load (they certainly can't be more difficult than the 4x5!) and it could well be that I'm simply lame at it! :o)

Here's a link to their website as of today's date (Feb. 13, 2020): https://realfilmreel.bigcartel.com/products

Long Live Film!

Christopher