Dark Cloth or Hood?

[Gene Crumpler]

I've now into my new adventure in LF that I need a couple of opinions. This is a pretty universal need for all LF photographers.

I'm wondering if a good folding hood on the back is as workable as a dark cloth that a lot of us hide under. My toyo does not have a ground glass protector right now. I'm using a piece of 8 ply mat board and a rubberband to protect the glass. I've priced a new cloth and a used hood for the toyo and they are about the same.

Question; is a flooding hood adequate for out door work? Also what are your thoughts on a suction loup? I currently have a 7x B&L loupe that I use to use in a lab to measure gas chromatography peaks.

[Alan Davenport]

With a fast lens (f/5.6 or faster) you might be able to see the image most of the time. With something like a 90mm f/8 Super Angulon you'll see mostly frustration. I don't think the hoods are a good substitute for a darkcloth.

If you are looking for another way to protect your groundglass, check out the Calumet GG protector. It's basically a U-shaped piece of plastic that slides in like a film holder. Covers and protects BOTH SIDES of the glass.

[Paul Butzi]

In my limited experience with folding hoods, they're inadequate.

I use a variant of a dark cloth, made by The View Camera Store.

I use this one www.viewcamerastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=32&osCsid=7327c574a0d8505aab11634055e51e61 (http://www.viewcamerastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=32&osCsid=7327c574a0d8505aab11634055e51e61)

I have the little 10x Peak sucking loupe (Honest, I think that's what it said on the box!).

It's useful for lots of stuff. Using it on the ground glass is not one of them.

I use a calumet 7x focusing loupe which I can't find on the Calumet web site, sorry.

[lee\c]

Hi Gene,

In my mind there is no way that the folding hood would be dark enough. I use a darkcloth from the viewcamera store (http://www.viewcamerastore.com/) have seen some good ones from the Blackjacket people. (www.quietworks.com) Several of my friends that are handy with sewing have made their own. I am not handy that way.

Alan has given good advise.

leec

[Matt Mengel]

I have only used the metal hoods, such as the Graphic type. It's tough to get a loupe near the glass with one of those and still tough to focus. As for the focus cloth, buy some material and have a seamstress or tailor make one up. They are really just some white cloth and black cloth with a hem. Do a search here and get some suggestions before buying the material. Also a black sweatshirt will work if you are short on cash, or forget your focus cloth at home.

[Ole Tjugen]

I use both!

Most of my cameras (sounds frightning) come with folding hood - Linhof Technika and Color, Voigtländer Bergheil, Avus and VAG - which is great for initial setup and basic pointing-the-right-way. At least as long as I use lenses no slower than f:5.6 or so. For the final fine-tuning and focus-twiddling I use a dark cloth, a.k.a black T-shirt. With wide-angle lenses of f:8 or worse it's really the only usable thing.

But since my cameras have folding hoods, I find them easy to use and worth keeping. But I'm not planning to get them for cameras which don't come with them!

[John Alexander Dow]

I use a lightweight anorak for viewing. It is much lighter in weight than a dark cloth and keeps me dry if it rains. For my type of photography (mostly landscape and the odd ancient building) I do not find getting focus a problem in spite of using glasses, especially as I willl stop down to f22 pretty much all of the time.

Wide angles with front rise I focus in the middle and pretty much guess the overall framing from experience. It is just impossible to see the corners anyway on the screen and you do get used to the way reality translates to the film frame.

Of course If I was doing close up work and using extreme movements with large apertures I Would get my lupe out but I rarely use it in the field.

JayDee

[Gem Singer]

Hi Gene,

If you are planning on investing in a Toyo folding focusing hood, also plan on purchasing a Toyo 3.6X focusing loupe. It's a longer length metal tubular loupe that is designed for use inside of the deep Toyo folding hood. I used that set up on both a Toyo 45AII (it came equipped with a hood) and a Toyo 45AX ( I had to add a Toyo accessory hood). The Toyo folding focusing hood works great for composing, as well as for protecting the excellent (and expensive) Toyo Fresnel focusing screen.

In most instances, the folding hood, alone, was sufficient, as long as the sun wasn't shining from directly behind. When it did, I had to use a Toyo darkcloth, as well as the folding focusing hood.
Don't waste your money on a Peak suction loupe. 10X magnification is too strong. The Fresnel lines and the grain of the ground glass will show up and become annoying.

[Danny Burk]

Hi Gene,

For most 4x5 shooting, I love my Horseman bino reflex viewer; it makes composition and focus much more enjoyable and efficient. Unfortunately, Horseman has discontinued them, and they're now in considerable demand on the used market, but can be found with a bit of searching.

On occasion, I can't use the viewer due to the camera's position, and at these times I use a BTZS focusing cloth; I also have one for my 5x7. It's sort of a "tube" that has an elastic band where it fits around the rear of the camera, and a split (but Velcro-attached) seam into which you insert your head. It's far nicer than the traditional horseblanket-style darkcloth.

I'll give you a good look at these various accessories at the Smokies workshop in October :)

Regards,
Danny www.dannyburk.com

[Rich Long]

< shameless plug > If you decide on a dark cloth, and like the BTZS version linked above, I have a nearly-new one advertised on APUG and Photo.net. < /shameless plug >

[Brian Ellis]

I've found the folding focusing hoods on the two Linhof Technikas I've owned to be pretty much useless. They collapse unless held open with one hand, that leaves only one hand to do everything else which isn't practical (for me at least). Also, since they're made of fabric you can't push your forehead up against them enough to keep out the light. But they make great ground glass protectors (though at $500 each some might think they're a little expensive for a ground glass protector).

[Oren Grad]

I've never found a usable folding hood. I much prefer a BTZS hood - I use the 8x10 size for all formats smaller than that.

I almost never bother with a loupe, but when I do, it's an ordinary (non-suction) one. I have the Toyo 3.6x loupe, but haven't found it any help compared to just eyeballing the ground glass. I also have a bulkier, no-name 6x loupe that I bought from the View Camera Store many years ago, which I do use once in a great while.

[Gene Crumpler]

Sounds like the BTZS cloth is the favorite.

Rich, I e-mailed you off forum.

The 7x loupe that I have seems to do the job.

I just ran resolution tests on my Geronar 150. Resolution is quite good.

f16 center-66 corner 42

f22 center-56 corner 43

I use to have 35mm nikkors that don't do much more than that. I sold all the dogs and only kept the best glass if I ever decide to get a 14 megpixel nikon:>)

BTW-I'm not a complusive lens tester, just like to weed out the dogs. I still own a 105 SMC pentax lens that really go's to h__l at 16 and 22.

Also, thanks for all the quick responses. I'm feeling at home here already.

[James Bleifus]

I use a Black Jacket and think it's worth twice what I paid.

Cheers, James

[Scott Fleming]

Folding focusing hoods are overpriced gg protectors. Although you can point the camera in the general direction of your chosen frame through them ... unless the sun is looking over your shoulder.

I don't have a dark cloth at the moment. I do have a gray towel with some velcro stapled where it counts that I throw over my head for the 30 seconds or so that fine focusing and composition confirmation takes. I do most of my composing with a template or my hands before I look through the camera. I swear, these guys who rave about composing on an upside down gg while baking under a black rag are somewhere I haven't got to yet.

As regards loups: I use one occaisonally, if I have doubts ... but after fine focusing and tilting with my 3x rexall specs over my regular astigmatic correction glasses I hardly ever change my settings because of anything the loup tells me.

Danny's recommendation of a reflex viewer gives me hope. I've wanted one and am currently perusing ebay although many LF enthusiasts seem to hold them in contempt.

[John Cook]

I learned to use LF back in the days when I always had an impossible commercial deadline nipping at my heels AND smoked a pipe (latakia tobacco). Neither allowed me to develop the habit of endless second-guessing and comprehensive analysis of the ground glass under a focus hood. I was forced to compose the shot, focus, read the light, make the exposure and move on to the next shot. In just about that amount of time. Any analysis was done by looking directly at the scene, not through the camera.

A good, strong pair of reading half glasses and a Beattie Intenscreen has always allowed me to work in the field with just about that amount of efficiency. A focus cloth allows me to move my head around. Nice with 4x5, absolutely necessary with 8x10 and larger. It is difficult to compose and focus with your eye in a fixed position.

I have recently switched to black ultrasuede for focus cloth material from the local fabric store. It doesn't unravel, so requires no hemming - just cut it to your desired size. It is completely light-proof and sufficiently heavy (without being too stiff) that it doesn't flap around in the wind. May be just a tad hot in the desert, but I'm in balmy New England.

When agonizing over critical depth of field with a table-top in the studio, my choice is a Schneider 4x loupe. Any stronger (I started with a 12 power) and I spend all my time analyzing the molecular structure of the groundglass instead of focusing. I keep the studio dark, so neither a hood nor cloth is necessary.

[CXC]

My experience with the folding metal hoods has been negative, like most, though not all, people. The only point I see in them is they might be a little faster, if you are in a hurry. For me, hurry and LF don't mix.

I own a standard darkcloth, and a BTZS 8x10 hood. What do I use with my 4x5? A black t-shirt. Neck opening is just right to seal around the back of the camera. Keep the arms at the sides, so they don't sag in front of your face. Just the right size. Sometimes it is handy to wear it around your neck between actions. And you can't beat the price.

[Dennis Mairet]

Check out the Toyo balloon focussing hood. It is like a bag bellows that attaches to the back in the same way as the folding hood does. It cuts out more light than the folding hood and is more versatile in positioning the hole for viewing (with or without a loupe).

[John McLaine]

Here's one vote for a reflex viewer. The documentary film on the late Peter Dombrovskis, the great Australian nature photographer, shows him using a Linhof reflex viewer extensively. My thought was that if it was good enough for Dombrovskis, then it was good enough for me, so I bought one. I've found it to be an excellent device, and it swings out of the way if I want to check the ground glass with my 8x Schneider loupe. I wouldn't like to go back to a dark cloth.

[Gem Singer]

The Toyo binocular reflex viewer that is made to fit on Gene's Toyo 45CF camera is bulky, heavy weight, and relatively expensive. Good used ones are out there, but they are hard to find. The Toyo rubber monocular viewer is a waste of time and money. Gene, I recommend that you use a darkcloth with that camera. The BTZS tubular cloth should work just fine.

[Gene Crumpler]

Eugene;

The cloth seems to be the way to go. Think I will find a black t-shirt and try it out until I get to Danny's LF workshop in October. There I should get chance to try all these options for myself.

By then I will have a fair amount of experience with the Toyo CF.

Thanks again everone.

[J. A. Berwocky]

With a good fresnel (Wista's come to mind) and longer lenses, the focusing hood is great in most conditions. But you also need a darkcloth. A light, dark jacket does just as well as most hoods, and a black t-shirt is a great idea.

I really like the focusing hood for protecting the GG too. I even like the Linhof one - it flips out of the way easily and it doesn't collapse on me, unlike some others complain about. IMHO the old metal Graphic hoods were the best though.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I use both. You can see more with a cloth, but you can often see enough with a folding hood, once you get accustomed to it.

Folding hoods are quick and handy for places where you might want to keep an eye on what's happening around you. They work better if you have a fresnel. With the folding hood I usually use the long Toyo 3.6x loupe. The Graflex hood is better than the Linhof, but my Linhof hood stays open without any contortions. Sometimes I'll wear a wide brimmed hat and hold it for a little extra shade if the sun is behind me.