Developing Prints in Drums

[C_Remington]

So...does anyone regularly develop their prints in drums like Jobo or Unicolor?

I have only/always used trays but, may need to switch to drum development.

It makes me nervous but, I'm not sure why.

I'd like to know if anyone is doing it and if there are any material draw backs.

thanx in advance.

[Leigh]

I bought my Jobo to do Cibachrome prints, and did a large number of same before it vanished.

Obviously those machines are designed for color processing, given their built-in water heaters.

You can do B&W at room temperature with no problem. You didn't specify color, B&W or both.

- Leigh

[Kodachrome25]

I use a Jobo 3063 drum for 20x24, saves space, love it!

[Drew Wiley]

Plastic-based papers or film will stay stiffer beside the walls of a drum than fiber-based paper. I don't know how big you can go before the paper would sag and collapse when wet. You'd have to test. You also need more chem because you have to dump it each time, but still need enough in the drum to keep the print
covered the entire length. If you try to reuse or replenish the dev, things get more complicated. I really like drums for color processing, but not for FB black and white prints. I prefer to be able to see, under safelight, when the image is emerging in the developer.

[Jim Noel]

There is one great advantage to developing in drums- you will be forced to get your exposure correct and stop pulling from the developer too soon.

[Drew Wiley]

Depends, Jim .... some drum designs fill and drain much better than others. That difference in time, and when the stop bath finally hits, can spell the difference between even development or not, compared to trays. There are also sometimes agitation or internal temp control issues, esp with big drums. Most color processes are done to some completion time/temp point which is standardized. That's not the case with black and white work. There are lots of pros and cons. For one thing, I would never do any kind of conventional color process in trays simply due to the unhealthy fumes, which are easier to control using drums. One of my big 30x40 drum processors is actually built onto a cart which I wheel outdoors in mild weather, and greatly helps me avoid getting sensitized to the color chem. This time of year, as the outdoors is starting to seriously cool down, I shift into my black and white mode with a sink tray line, indoors. But drums are nice in the sense that they require relatively little space.

[Ed Brock]

I use an open-ended drum (6" black ABS DWV pipe from Lowes / Home Depot. They sell those in 24" pieces. I simply tilt my trays to one side fill with about 27 oz of chemistry, and hand roll the drum in dev - stop - fix. I believe you can find long narrow trays made for wallpaper etc. I have to trim 20x24 paper down to 18x24 to get it into the 6" dia. tube (but that is the proportion of my 5x7).

[Dave Langendonk]

All my color work up to 20x24 is done in Jobo drums but I'm sure you're asking about B&W. Just for the heck of it I tried some B&W fiber based paper in a Jobo drum and as Drew said, fiber in a drum doesn't work very well due to sagging, etc. B&W RC paper will work just fine in drums.

[C_Remington]

All my color work up to 20x24 is done in Jobo drums but I'm sure you're asking about B&W. Just for the heck of it I tried some B&W fiber based paper in a Jobo drum and as Drew said, fiber in a drum doesn't work very well due to sagging, etc. B&W RC paper will work just fine in drums.

Crap. Like a lot of folks here, I do process B/W only and print on fiber exclusively right now.

I assume the sagging happens regardless of paper size?

[Peter De Smidt]

You might try a fiberglass screen, such as window screening, to hold the fiber based paper in the drum.

[gliderbee]

There is one great advantage to developing in drums- you will be forced to get your exposure correct and stop pulling from the developer too soon.

I learned that you have to develop the paper completely, until the blacks don't get any blacker. For RC, that would be 1.5 minutes, for FB 3 minutes. Pulling the paper out of the developer was a no-no. RC works fine for me in drums (Jobo 3063 and 2850), but I never tried with FB.

Stefan.

[Dave Langendonk]

Crap. Like a lot of folks here, I do process B/W only and print on fiber exclusively right now.

I assume the sagging happens regardless of paper size?

I only tried it with 11x14 so can't speak to other sizes however as you know fiber gets really soft when wet and for my trial it was pretty hard getting it out without damaging it. It just has no strength to it when wet. It's wet paper after all.

[Cor]

I did 20*24 FB in a long drum. I did do pre wetting with water (1-2 minutes) if I omitted that I saw uneven development (I think..). The preweting makes the paper stick to the wall. One thing I noticed that the paper would significantly expand, take it in account, so do not put the dry paper between ribs (if present) of the drum when dry at a tight fit. Use sufficient developer, say 500 ml, developer oxidises more quickly due to the rotation development. I usually use trays though but my darkroom is too small for 20*24 inch. Two of my friends use drums only for processing FB paper..

Best,

Cor

Ps removing the paper takes some effort and caution, you'll wrinkle the paper easily. A pre wet has as advantage that the drum can be used while it is still a bit wet, if you start dry, the drum should be really dry

[rcmartins]

I also have acute space limitation and thus recently acquired a jobo CPA-2 with a 4551 and a brand new fiber print dryer so that I can make 16"x20" (40x50 cm) FB prints. A lot of people say the 3063 drum can do 20x24 FB prints without any problem of sagging and looking at the pictures from the inside of the 3063 it seems pretty much the same as the 4551. The main difference seems to be the outer diameter making the 4551 unsuitable for prints bigger than 16x20 unless one uses the plastic spiral (jobo 4512) that allows the print to curl inside overruling the limiting outside diameter of the drum. But since the 3063 does not have any inside screen and people are successful with it I thought I would be able to go up to 16x24.
I have not yet tried a full print at 16x20 because only very recently have I managed to acquire all the bits required to do it. However, I did try a much smaller FB print (8x10) and while it did stick to the walls everything worked out well. This is why I invested in the bigger CPA-2, 4551 drum and dryer. Having stumbled upon this thread I became a bit frightened of not being able to do it, but there are some contradictory experiences which leads me to believe there might be something in the way it is done that can make a difference. As Cor stated previously I also pre-wet the print for 60s. Then I apply the developer for 3 minute (I use very diluted Neutol 1+29) at ~25rpm. After that comes the stop bath, 1 min., the fixer (1+11 rapid fixer) and wash by doing 4 cycles of clean water during 30s each. The rotation is always kept at 25rpm or close by with inversion.
As I have stated previously I still do not know if I will be successful or not with a 16x20 FB print applying this protocol. However it would be extremely helpful for all who think of using drums to circumvent space limitations if someone who is successful in doing large FB prints in drums could describe their protocol so that it could be more replicable. If I am successful I will provide feedback here.
raul

[polyglot]

I have a 4550 and it makes nice 16x20s but I have to hand-roll it. Does anyone know if there's a way to get a cog-lid onto it so that I can use it with my CPP-2 lift?

[rcmartins]

Just wanted to share that I have been extremely successful using the 4541 and 4551 drums on a CPA-2 to develop fiber paper prints all the way up to 16"x20". They come out pretty much perfect with no marks, and no sagging. What I do is simply to pre-wet the print inside the drum for about 30s and then do the typical developer, stop, fix1, fix2 and water sequence. The washing is carried out by 10 cycles of water renewal with rotation for 30s each. In my case this will amount to about 10 minutes for the washing. I cannot test the amount of fixer that might still be in the paper, but the prints tone very well without any ill behaviour. I use speed 3 for all processing steps.
I don't have a lift so I cannot comment on the cog lid.
raul
PS: just forgot to mention that I find the clips to be indispensable to keep the paper from sagging.